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-   -   Most precedential airplanes of all time? (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/406414-most-precedential-airplanes-all-time.html)

stepwilk 20th Feb 2010 22:30

Most precedential airplanes of all time?
 
Question: For a magazine article I'm doing, I'm trying to pick the dozen (or so) most important airplanes of all time. I've listed my own candidates below, and welcome suggestions of others. I should point out that what I want to avoid are "inconsequential" firsts, at least inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Like "first turbocharged airplane," "first carrier-landing airplane," etc. Not that those advances are unimportant, but do remember that I am looking for the dozen MOST important advances.

Wright Model A, first practical airplane
Junkers J.1, first all-metal, first cantilever wing
Dayton-Wright RB-1, first retractable gear
Ryan Spirit of St. Louis, first major use of a truly reliable engine
DC-3, first practical and profitable airliner
Ercoupe, first production tricycle gear
Me-262, first true high-performance, combat-worthy jet fighter
Boeing Dash 80, first high-performance jet airliner (sorry, Comet fans...)
Caravelle, first short-haul jet airliner, first rear-mounted engines
Lear 23, first practical, high-performance bizjet
Windecker Eagle, first all-composite airplane
Lockheed SR-71, highest-performance airplane ever
Airbus A320 OR Vought F8 Crusader testbed, first true digital fly-by-wire airplane.

Also, I'd like to avoid choosing inconsequential airplanes that may by chance have been "first"--I'm sure some Dutchman, say, made a single airplane that made one flight in 1909 and had one retractable wheel, but those are curiosities, not trend setters.

Fire away.

India Four Two 21st Feb 2010 01:27

Stephan,

A very interesting list. I think you should include the Akaflieg Stuttgart fs-24 Phönix (Deutsches Museum: Phönix) - the very first glass-fibre glider and therefore the ancestor of all composite aircraft flying today. 40:1 in 1957!

pigboat 21st Feb 2010 01:32

Noorduyn Norseman, the first bush plane with a heater that actually worked. :p
DHC-2 Beaver, the standard by which every other bush airplane is judged.
PBY-5A, the first water bomber that could deliver more water on a fire than would peeing on it. Figuratively speaking, of course. ;)

ICT_SLB 21st Feb 2010 04:14

Hard to make such a list without at least mentioning the Vickers Vimy. First transatlantic flight, first to Australia, first to the Cape & first complete evacuation of a civilian population in Vernon guise (Kabul, Afganistan - some things never change).

I would also think the first all composite aircraft to have been the Mosquito.

philbky 21st Feb 2010 10:12

Not sure how you can't include the Comet.

The first jet airliner into series production
The first to regularly carry fare paying passengers on schedule services

You might also consider that the work done after the Comet accidents on the fuselages in the water tanks contributed more to knowledge of pressurisation and skinning for high altitude passenger flights than that carried out anywhere else, to the benefit of the whole industry.

By contrast the Dash 80 was a one off prototype which proved a number of concepts leading to the success of the more developed C-135 and B707. Its other claim to fame was the famous roll.

Both aircraft, for different reasons, are worthy of inclusion.

You include the Caravelle for good reasons but, going back to the Comet, look at the amount of work done on the Comet that was included in the Caravelle - complete nose, pressurisation and window changes and Avon engines originally developed for the Comet

Where is Concorde? First airliner genuinely developed and built by more than one nation. First supersonic airliner to carry passengers on regular scheduled service.

Whilst for many reasons supersonic airliner development has ceased, if Concorde isn't included then the SR-71 should be deleted as there is no evidence of its further development, both aircraft downstreaming some technologies into the general industry rather than being launch platforms for development and advance from their starting point.

Your list is a little too US-centric. True, many of the major developments in aviation at all leveols have taken place in the US but, if your article is to stand up to scrutiny and be read by an international audience you need to spread your net wider.

clunckdriver 21st Feb 2010 11:20

Pietenpol, the real begining of the homebuilt movement, others, such as the "Flea" were there but the Piet, by dint of its simplicity and cheap powerplant {model A Ford} really got things going.

tail wheel 21st Feb 2010 11:56

Richard Pearce's powered monoplane which made the first successful controlled flight on 31 March 1903, nine months before the Wright bothers flight on December 17, 1903.

stepwilk 21st Feb 2010 12:11

"Hard to make such a list without at least mentioning the Vickers Vimy. First transatlantic flight..."

I'm not looking for "firsts," There are a million of those. I'm looking for specific aircraft that had an enormous effect on the future of flight. The Me-262, for example, was far from the first, but it was the one that created the mold out of which came the MiG-15, the F-86 and for some years every other jet fighter of consequence.

Nor was the DC-3 "the first," that arguably would have been the Boeing 247. But the Doug Racer was the one that worked.

philbky 21st Feb 2010 12:32

Well every aircraft listed on your original post is categorised by you as a "first".

Perhaps what you really mean is the type in its class, generation or design having most effect on the development of its particular role or the advancement of aviation in general.

I'd look again at your categorisation of the Spirit of St Louis. If the ability to power an aircraft over long distances is your criterion then the Rolls Royce Eagle VIII which powered the Vickers Vimy beats the Wright J-5C chronologically and in terms of extended operational service.

The Wright J-5C had built in features regarding lubrication and continuous operation. The J-5 engine series, not the aircraft or the one sub series, should be included as the progenitor of a range of Wright radial engines which powered a vast range of military and civil designs over four decades and which led other manufacturers to follow.

Tempsford 21st Feb 2010 12:56

P1127/Harrier?

stepwilk 21st Feb 2010 13:16

Yes, you're right, I had the P.1127 on my list, forgot to include it...

And it's hard to explain the concept of "consequential first," if you don't get it, and I guess I'm just not being clear enough about explaining it. For example yes, the Comet was the "first jet airliner," but the Dash 80/707 was arguably the "first jet airliner that established the pattern for jet airliners to come."

Of course the Comet-versus-707 thing could be argued forever, but maybe I should have described the aircraft I listed as "most important" and not "first."

philbky 21st Feb 2010 13:32

I agree regarding the Comet v 707 debate going on forever but history shows that the Comet (and for that matter the Avro Canada C102) were the real airliners that set the pattern for airliners to come.

Both flew in the 1940s when US manufacturers were churning out the DC6, Constellation and Stratocruiser. Both jets had four engines, were pressurised for high altitude flight and were expected to be the initial models of long series production runs.

The fact that the Comet suffered tragedies and the Canadians bottled out doesn't change the facts.

The Dash 80 was initially built by Boeing as a proof of concept for the the bid for what eventually became the C135 and was only adapted to an airliner concept later. It followed the Comet and the Avro C102 in having four engines and being capable of high altitude flight.

It extended the thinking that had come out of the UK and Canada by offering a bigger payload and positioning the engines on pylons but Douglas and Convair, having also decided that passenger jets were the future, followed similar formats and, in fact Boeing widened their fuselage to compete with the DC8.

The fact is that the Dash 80 and Boeing benefitted from the Comet's downfall, learned from its failings and, with money earned from the C135 programme was able to fund the 707 and build them in great numbers quickly and well.

In that, then, it can be seen that the Dash 80 was a milestone along a pathway already trodden by others. Worthy of inclusion but not to the exception of the Comet.

Lightning Mate 21st Feb 2010 13:42


True, many of the major developments in aviation at all leveols have taken place in the US but, if your article is to stand up to scrutiny and be read by an international audience you need to spread your net wider.
Couldn't agree more.

Does not the humble Lightning (not the P38) stand a chance then?

B Fraser 21st Feb 2010 13:45

DH 121 Trident - the first full autoland capable airliner. Try selling one without it.

You fail to mention the first jet powered flight which is something of an omission. It changed the world forever. Whether it was the Germans or the Brits, I'll let others fight over that one.

The all moving tail which made the Mig 15 and the F86 possible was courtesy of Miles. How many aircraft use this concept today ?

I'm surprised at the inclusion of the Caravelle which is half a Comet with a French rear end.

If you are more interested in precedents than firsts the the first aircraft to be fitted with wheels is more significant that the Wright model A. Not only could it fly away, it could land, refuel and come back again.

The Boeing 747 brought cheap travel to the masses and could be argued to have made the biggest contribution of all.


Lockheed SR-71, highest-performance airplane ever
A rather spectacular and capable aircraft but not the fastest according to some.

skytrain10 21st Feb 2010 14:54

Stepwilk....sounds like it will be a fascinating article. I fully appreciate you are not going particularly for "firsts" here, but rather those aircraft that have had the greatest impact on the industry...and no doubt you are limited by space! Anyway some thoughts, for what its worth:

Biz Jet...JetStar or Sabre?. Both preceeded the Learjet and although not produced in such huge quantities, they were produced in significant numbers, and several still survive today. In terms of opening up the biz jet market to the masses, arguably the Cessna Citation should take first place over the Lear?

Airliners....I would have thought that, as someone else has said, the 747 and Concorde must feature, and perhaps the likes of the Airbus A300, the first of the "big twins", which of course has spawned a long line of Airbus models, including todays A330. I wont get in to the Comet/707 argument...suffice to say the 707 proved itself in the world airline market.....however I would say that perhaps you should specify 707 as opposed to the -80?

On the light side, I would be tempted to include the Piper Cub or Cessna 172, if for no other reason than their contribution to private flying, and the numbers produced and length of production runs. The fact that Cubs were still selling in the 1980's speaks for itself!

Finally, on the military side, should the C-130 get a mention...still in production after 55 years!

Lightning Mate 21st Feb 2010 15:27

Should you include the Hurricane - the real winner of the Battle of Britain.

Out-turned Das Spitfeur. I once had a couple of beers with Adolf Galland, who said that he feared the Hurricane because of its' turning performance. Nice big thick wing, as opposed to the fast, but poor turning performance Spitfeur.

How big is your list going to grow?

John Farley 21st Feb 2010 15:28

stepwilk


I'm looking for specific aircraft that had an enormous effect on the future of flight
If you really are LITERALLY after these then I would suggest the list will be very short not long.

For example that would rule out the P1127/Harrier, the SR-71, the B-747 and many many others because they did not literally shape the future of flight and nor did the Wright flyer.

It would include the DC-3 because it showed the way for so many piston powered airliners.

It would include the B-47 because it was the aerodynamic prototype for so many jet airliners.

It would include the Concorde because that showed for the first time that faster was not always going to be better for passengers and that slower but cheaper worked.

It would include a helicopter (Could be Hanna Reitsch's Fa61 - in public night after night a year or so before Igor Sikorsky's success but his was to be the definitive configuration for many years)

The Ercoupe may have been the first light civil production aircraft to have a tricycle gear but surely that side of the future of flight was set by the first succesful aircraft to show the advantages of the trike?

Perhaps if you stick literally to my quote from you above then you will actually have a much less contentious task on your hands?

philbky 21st Feb 2010 15:36

The Herc should certainly be there as, from the start, it has been the benchmark for reliable cargo and battlefield equipment delivery by air. It has had many imitators - none of which has matched its record.

You could also make a good case for the B737 series which started out as just another short/medium haul jet yet gave its operators the opportunity to rid themselves of piston engined and turboprop models, giving short haul passengers an experience previously reserved in the main for long haul passengers whilst offering greater capacity and higher profits; opened up new markets for charter carriers previously restricted to second hand airframes and was, in various forms, the start up equipment of choice for budget airlines all over the world.

As more 737s are in the air at any one time than any other type, it has had more effect than any other airliner in history on air travel, the fortunes of airlines and, strangely, on Airbus which just had to produce a rival and came up with an other standard setter.

con-pilot 21st Feb 2010 17:09


Lear 23, first practical, high-performance bizjet
Actually it was the Lockheed Jetstar (C-140) that was the first business jet to enter production, the first civilian version was delivered in 1961. I flew the Lockheed Jet Star and while the Jetstar did not have the short runway performance* of the Lear 23, it could carry twice the load with twice the range of the Lear 23.

Next was the North American Sabre 40 (T-39), first civilian version was delivered in 1963. Having flown both the Sabre 40 and the Lear 23, the Sabre had much better performance than the Lear 23. Lear just had a better Public Relations program. The Sabre 40 was faster and had a much better range than the Lear 40, not to mention the cabin was much more comfortable than the Lear 23.

The first Lear 23 was delivered in 1964. However, what the Lear 23 had going for it was that it was a cheaper than the Sabre 40 and a whole lot cheaper than the Jetstar.

* The Jetstar loved long runways, the longer the better. I always had the suspicion that Lockheed had a contract with concrete manufactures to make sure all runways would be at 10,000 feet long. :p

Oh, one more thing, I always thought that the Jetstar and the Sabreliner are much nicer flying than the Lear. Not to mention the much larger cockpit in the Sabreliner and a lot larger cockpit in the Jetstar.

philbky 21st Feb 2010 17:18

Early Lears had a reputation of being a bit of a beast to handle. Spectacular take off performance (having been derived from a Swiss fighter design) but the handling at altitude and in turbulence defeated a number of pilots at the cost of their and their passengers' lives.

By late 1973 25 Learjets of all models had been written off out of a total of 67 biz jet airframes (civil and military) written off up to that time.


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