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Flying Wing ???
Hi
After seeing a news article ??? stating that an AMERICAN had designed and planned this just what is the difference between a Russian ECTOPLAN (please excuse the spelling if it is wrong) and the FLYING WING as both seem to use exactly the SAME PRINCIPLE !!! :confused::confused::confused: |
Not sure what you mean by SAME PRINCIPLE. One is a ground effect vehicle whereas the other is an aircraft.
Ground effect vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Flying wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
SPIT
HI.
As you mention the article says 'designed and planned', are you saying the article did not also say built? Jack Northrop's flying wing designs go back a long way, and have an interesting history (including the usual political interference), but several models flew. As Brian Abraham mentions, flying wings and GEV's such as the Ekranoplan are very different beasts. I am curious to know if the article is referring to some other American designed item. Can you post the article, or post a link please? |
Hi,
Where Northrop's flying wings influenced by the Horton brothers, the 1930-40s German designers ??? Appreciate that most designs unless truly radical evolve in different countries at about the same time. Air pig |
In 1944 Horten had achieved Goering's requirement to put his flying wings into production. 1,000 kph, 1,000 kgs, 1,000 kms range. Owing to logistic problems caused by Allied bombing they never came to fruition. After the war Allied aircraft manufacturers jumped on to the developments that the Germans had generated.
Northdrop was one that gave the flying wing it a go and so was Armstrong Whitworth in the UK. Both developed, ultimately, jet propelled flying wings. Both gave it up after a few years. I believe that there is a Horten in Smithsonian awaiting its fate. |
Air Pig
This flying wing from Northrop called the N-1M first flew in July 1941... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Udvar-Hazy.jpg Whereas the Horton brothers did not even produce a glider until 1941 that resembled Northrop's designs... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rten_Ho_IV.JPG That said, the Horten's design for a jet flying wing, the Horton 229 first flew in Feb 1945 (and crashed within 2 hours!) - well ahead of the US prototypes at the time. They recently built a mock-up of one for a National Geographic TV program called "Hitler's Stealth Fighter" (or something like that). Here is a picture of their replica being measured for Radar Cross Section (RCS)... http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/fo...ngs-horten.jpg If I remember rightly the RCS was reduced by about 25% compared to comparable sized aircraft of the day :eek: The B Word |
PS
The Brit offering - the Armstrong Whitworth AW52 didn't fly until 1947 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...52_in_1946.jpg |
The B Word: This site disagrees with your assertion that Horton brothers did not even produce a glider until 1941 that resembled Northrop's designs.
The Horten Flying Wings |
It's all in the reading. I said that the Hortons did not produce a glider that resembled Northrop's flying wing until 1941...
Jack Northrop became interested in the development of the cleanest possible airplane early in his career as an aircraft designer. In 1923, as an engineer for Donald Douglas in Santa Monica, California, Northrop continually explored advanced designs for aircraft, seeking new ways to eliminate drag and the severe penalties in aircraft performance it imposed. Even then, he envisioned an airplane without protruding surfaces that did not contribute in some way to lift. He even undertook the design of a tailless, all-wing glider as a "pastime" project, but never finished the aircraft, due to other commitments and lack of funds. Northrop left Lockheed in 1928, and formed a small company, the Avion Corporation, in the Burbank/Glendale area, to further explore the idea of a tailless craft. His 1929 Flying Wing evolved, an aircraft unusual in appearance and performance, but more noted for its unique all-metal, stressed skin, multi-cellular construction. Although financial considerations forced suspension of further development of the airplane, its unique structure paved the way for major Northrop contributions to aviation in the perfection of all-metal construction. http://www.century-of-flight.net/Avi.../images6/8.jpg He couldn't claim success in 1940 apparently as he was unable to get the aircraft out of ground effect at Muroc! (see below at about 10ft). http://www.century-of-flight.net/Avi...images6/11.jpg |
The AW52 may not have flown until 1947, but it had been preceded by a sub-scale glider that flew in '43.
Moreover, with its laminar flow wing, pressurised cockpit and advanced flying controls it was a thoroughly modern aeroplane, with the practicality you'd expect from using Derwent power. It appeared a number of times in my Dad's logbook during his years at the RAE, and he liked it almost as much as the Lancs that were (along with Hastings, Lincolns and Canberras) his day-to-day bread and butter. He liked the Blackburn YA5, too, which he thought much nicer than the rival Fairey type that became the Gannet. |
B Word
your piccie is the Horten IV (which was indeed designed in 1941). However the Horten I flying wing flew in 1934, the II in 1935 and the III in 1938. Plus Alexander Lippisch was there with tailless gliders before the Horten brothers. There is currently a "new build" Horten IV in progress in Germany. It will be a sight to see fly. Allegedly however the IV shown in the museum did not perform as well as expected in tests in the USA in the 1950's (Marin Simons, Sailplanes 1920 - 1945) "There is nothing wrong with a tailless aircraft which cannot be cured by fitting a tail" - I can't remember who said that though! |
Wasn't Robert Kronfeld killed in an AW52?
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Wasn't Robert Kronfeld killed in an AW52?
No, a GAL56. Ciarain. |
I was on detatchment from Gib to either Bally Kelly or Aldergrove in 1952/53 when some firm "Shorts"? flew a full scale model of a flying wing complete with test pilot, towed off by an aircraft I can't remember , it got to about 60'in the air dropped a wing and crashed luckly he slipped the tow rope befor he crashed and escaped with minor injuries but the plane was wrecked .
anyone got any clues? |
Short Sherpa towed by a Short Sturgeon twin. (Aeroplane Monthly article years ago is how I know!) Actually not a flying wing as such as it had an extended fuselage carrying its fin and rudder, but it had innovative ailerons!
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Thank you for that , I know it is "off thread " can you remember what Short Bomber was called ,it had the engines mounted on top of one another and was told it was very easy to maintain.
by the by now I recall the Sherpa was made of wood and we were told not to touch it as they wanted to see if anything had caused the accident |
Shorts jet bomber
Name: Sperrin. Lost out to the Valiant (and no wonder!)
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avionic type:
Do you mean the Short S.A.4 Sperrin built as insurance against the Valiant being a failure? Only two were built. |
Thats the one , after what disaster that overcame the Valiant[ They were grounded all at once, spar problems I believe like the early Viscount but they were changed ]perhaps they should have built more, Shorts always built their aircraft like brick built toilets.
thanks again . |
Do you mean the Short S.A.4 Sperrin built as insurance against the Valiant being a failure Short Sperrin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
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