Dan Air 1008
 

Hi everyone.
I've posted here in order to get some details regarding the loss of G-BDAN 727-46 at TFN 25/04/80.
I am an independent documentary maker and despite their having been 5 series of the excellent Air Crash Investigations on Nat Geo channel, they have not covered this in depth, despite it being the single greatest loss of life involving a UK airliner. I have read the AAIB and CVR transcripts and am familiar with the accident, although CRM and taking the aircraft into high terrain was only one aspect of this. I believe ATC certainly contributed in respect of an unrealistic holding pattern and mis communication. I have searched just about everywhere for more finite details but there isn''t much around except that the Captain was known as Arthur "Red" Whelan. I am a great believer in getting facts historically correct. If anyone could point me in a direction where I might obtain more information from relatives or Dan Air staff, it would be greatly appreciated as there is little or no leads for Dan Air around :ugh:.
Many thanks

Thanks for your reply,
In case you're interested I am doing this out of respect for the victims and relatives in this case as it has been largely forgotten. I am also intending to visit the crash site and try to obtain info from the Guardia Civil and if I can, people from Manchester who remembered the crash. I have googled this over and over. So for now, I shall just treat your remark with the contempt it so richly deserves.

Respect??
 

Who says the victims/relatives wish for all this unpleasant past history to be trawled over again? Have you asked anyone? Ever heard the phrase "Let sleping dogs lie?". Respect my foot.

Or are you intending to make a profit from producing and marketing this documentary?

In any event, I doubt if you will locate any USEFUL supplementary information.

To be honest, I don't think you'll get very far with this. It was a classic failure in CRM, ( not called as such in those days), with appalling ATC as a contributory factor. I believe the CAA may have been close to shutting Dan Air down, but the company got their act together, new Ops Manager, new Ops Manual, psychometric testing for recruits etc., etc. The lessons were learnt, and are still being learnt; the last thing people involved will want is to rake over the past; there'll be no percentage in it, that's my opinion.

Dan Air - Tenerife
 

The Open University did a programme featuring this tragic accident round about 1984. If my memory is correct, the focus of the programme was closed loop feed-back.

I have to say that I feel this guy is being victimised when all he's said is that he would like to make a documentary about a fairly significant historical event for its field. Perhaps the fruits of his work should be judged on their merit, irrelevant of their intention, which may not even (and some people may find it unbelievable) be any more sinister than documenting the accident for posterity and trying to analyse what went wrong.

As a perfect example, indeed, I have never studied this accident in depth and only have a basic idea of what went on - perhaps the audience I refer to is far smaller than the intended, but when we start out in our careers (and I really am just starting out in mine, with an IR during the next fortnight) can they in fact foster a better understanding of the job, the importance of CRM and all of those good, multi crewish sort of ideas that are pushed so enthusiastically by the aviation world today? Certainly my course have watched most of the Air Accident Investigations, both as part of the course and out of sheer interest, and while the more expericenced of you out there may ridicule this, such programs are the first taster of similar events for many of us and DO give us good, and occasionally stark idea, of what can go wrong when things aren't done right the first time, an idea that is pretty vital to portray in the earliest stages of training.

I am constantly saddened to find that the industry into which I have chosen to enter seems to be populated by such a percentage of irrationally prejudiced, untrusting individuals, especially those who hypocritically cry words such as 'respect' when their chosen screen name is that of someone who was killed in a household accident and whose family was doubtlessly devastated by such a loss no less than those whose family were killed in an air accident.

I have to agree with Midland 331, this forum has the increasing feel of being inhabited solely by those who have nothing helpful to say yet who are far too willing to say it. If you don't feel that such a programme would be beneficial, perhaps there are more mature ways of saying it than two of the posts that accompany this thread (one which I notice has now been removed), especially when those who inhabit it are expected to be capable of more than slinging insults in order to put their argument across in their day to day career.

Try something topical?
 

Bridxb,

Whilst completely understanding accidents from decades ago will always contribute to present day flight safety.

Might you not be better off covering a real, current serious issue in your next TV documentary such as the contamination of air breathed by aircrew and passengers for the past forty years, which is known to cause serious long term ill health in many and will, unfortunately, be around for a few more years yet?

BBC Panorama scratched the surface of the subject in April 2008; it is still available in the UK.
BBC News Player - Something in the Air :ugh:

And a recent documentary 'Welcome aboard toxic airlines' which imight be a tad too honest for family TV viewing - spilt the beans.
Welcome Aboard Toxic Airlines - homepage :mad:

There is still much to say about this particular on going scandal for a global TV audience eager to know the truth of their mysterious ill health and to finally know whether there is 'Something in the air?'

David Learmount of Flight International's blog certainly thinks it should be pursued, urgently.

Learmount :D

Just a thought. I did try and PM you - but it wouldn't work....Promise.

DB :E

Thank you cfwake, a rational response.
Jesus, anyone would think I am a hack from the Sun trying to dig up titbits on sworded vicars etc.
Just to let you know I am not one of those "film makers" who shows a 747 SP taking off (you know the stubby ones SAA used to use for freight/passenger shipments in the 80's) and then show a L-1011 landing at some unrelated airport. I do my research and visiting sites like this is part of it. Clearly your response has answered a few of my questions.
I make my own self funded programmes and spend a lot of time roping in investors so as I can sell the programme to a network, it's called running a business. It would seem that others on this site think that profiteering of an historical event is damnation, Although I guess buying your end of season DVD of your football/any sport team is acceptable.
I do this because I love flying and I like to report history factually without any unneccesary accountability, but what the heck, guess I'll just let you go back to watching Big Brother.

Thank you, Yes, I would be happy to cover this.
I am aware of the health aspects of air travel and it would be ground breaking. It's kind of one of those things that everyones knows but seems to be accepted. The question is would people be willing to state for the record, their concerns.
Judging by this forum, brick walls are a constant.

bridxb
 

The programme I refer to was initially transmitted in 1986.

It is an Open University programme called 'A Question of Control' featuring the 1980 Dan Air accident in Tenerife.

The programme, narrated by Jeremy Paxman, reconstructs events from the aircraft approaching the island to final impact with in-depth analysis of communications between the pilots and Los Rodeos ATC.

Thanks, I will be sure to check it.

I assume you saw the price for the video through my link? Not cheap!

Is it just me, or are half the posts on this thread missing?

Sorry Sensible but can you give some kind of evidence to back that up?

No mention of that in Dan Air's official history or the AAIB's comments on the Spanish investigation.

I do believe that the thinking at Dan-Air (at the time) was called into question when they requested permission to shut one engine down in cruise with their Comet 4's a few years previously, from the CAA.

Bad idea...and seen for what it was...poor thinking.

Quote

Thank you, Yes, I would be happy to cover this.
I am aware of the health aspects of air travel and it would be ground breaking. It's kind of one of those things that everyones knows but seems to be accepted. The question is would people be willing to state for the record, their concerns.
Judging by this forum, brick walls are a constant.

Reply

You have to 'Box' clever with the people on this forum, They only read what they want to read, All take & no Give.:=

Bryan Wyatt eat your heart out.:sad:

bridxb,

I would agree that a few people know all about contaminated air; but I know from bitter experience that you would find most aircrew and passengers are desperate to know what stops them from doing their jobs / causing their serious ill health for years on end.

Especially when there are simple ways of preventing it.

Wouldn't you be desperate to know what wrecked your life?

The answer is under our noses and somebody needs to tell the people.

DB :eek: