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-   -   Sunderland 'Golden Horn' crashed Lisbon 1943 (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/302982-sunderland-golden-horn-crashed-lisbon-1943-a.html)

ericferret 25th Jun 2023 20:18


Originally Posted by A30yoyo (Post 11456774)
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....30e7f0a112.jpg
At Lisbon after the 1942 float replacement?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....fe117dad77.jpg
Wreckage recovered Lisbon 1943 a
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4821e6a8c5.jpg
Wreckage recovered Lisbon 1943 b
g

I wonder why there would be a British policeman in Lisbon?

Jhieminga 26th Jun 2023 11:44

Perhaps he was connected to the embassy, or he was sent over to guard the wreckage, to safeguard any evidence for the investigation? Just guesses I'm afraid.

WHBM 26th Jun 2023 17:59

It is surprising how often casual trial/test etc events that come to grief turn out to have unexpected passengers on them. The French high-speed train crash at Strasbourg, and the German Maglev train crash both had this. The Russian Sukhoi Superject in Indonesia 10 years ago likewise, and there have been others in the past.

chevvron 26th Jun 2023 18:59


Originally Posted by Jhieminga (Post 11457160)
Perhaps he was connected to the embassy, or he was sent over to guard the wreckage, to safeguard any evidence for the investigation? Just guesses I'm afraid.

Maybe the photo wasn't taken in Lisbon? There's at least part of a letter 'V' painted on the large piece of what looks like a wing (although it could be part of an 'A' upside down, the reg being G-AFCK painted on camouflage) and at least 3 guys near the bobby are wearing ties, hardly the sort of garb for the Portuguese but common in the UK.

megan 27th Jun 2023 03:27


hardly the sort of garb for Portuguese but common in the UK
British personnel sent to investigate the crash or embassy staff?

Jhieminga 27th Jun 2023 12:10


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11457350)
Maybe the photo wasn't taken in Lisbon?

That's what I thought too, but the best I can do is this cropped bit from the second photo. I can see 'LISBOA' in the second line, although it's a stretch, which would support the photos having been taken in that country, or next to a barge that hailed from that country. If they shipped parts over to the UK, I would have expected a vessel that was a bit more substantial though.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ad8955ff71.jpg


chevvron 27th Jun 2023 13:56


Originally Posted by Jhieminga (Post 11457651)
That's what I thought too, but the best I can do is this cropped bit from the second photo. I can see 'LISBOA' in the second line, although it's a stretch, which would support the photos having been taken in that country, or next to a barge that hailed from that country. If they shipped parts over to the UK, I would have expected a vessel that was a bit more substantial though.

It's the third photo containing a bobby and three 'official' looking types wearing ties that, to me, is not Lisbon and is more likely to be in the UK; I don't dispute the other photos.

megan 28th Jun 2023 03:07

I find it hard to believe that the wreckage would have been repatriated to the UK in the middle of a war.

chevvron 28th Jun 2023 08:32


Originally Posted by megan (Post 11458034)
I find it hard to believe that the wreckage would have been repatriated to the UK in the middle of a war.

I don't think that happened; what I'm suggesting is this third photo is of an entirely different crash somewhere around the UK (unlless they wore that type of police uniform in Malta)

DH106 28th Jun 2023 08:55

Malta? Isn't Lisbon in Portugal.

chevvron 28th Jun 2023 10:57


Originally Posted by DH106 (Post 11458169)
Malta? Isn't Lisbon in Portugal.

Maltese police wore that style of police uniform including the helmet; I think they changed to khaki later but I don't when; there must have been quite a few flying boat crashes there during WW2.

Expatrick 28th Jun 2023 11:18


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11458246)
Maltese police wore that style of police uniform including the helmet; I think they changed to khaki later but I don't when; there must have been quite a few flying boat crashes there during WW2.

I believe the Maltese stopped using the British "Bobby" type of uniform well before the second war.

bean 28th Jun 2023 19:10


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11458153)
I don't think that happened; what I'm suggesting is this third photo is of an entirely different crash somewhere around the UK (unlless they wore that type of police uniform in Malta)

But these pics come from the National Archives file on G-AFCK

DHfan 28th Jun 2023 19:41

Embassies generally are "guarded" and I wouldn't have thought that we could spare or need a platoon or whatever of armed servicemen.

As Portugal was neutral, and our oldest ally, I wouldn't be surprised if UK policemen were part of the embassy staff.

chevvron 28th Jun 2023 20:25


Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 11458254)
I believe the Maltese stopped using the British "Bobby" type of uniform well before the second war.

Obviously not there then!!

megan 29th Jun 2023 02:18


what I'm suggesting is this third photo is of an entirely different crash somewhere around the UK
As bean has said the photos come from the official file of the G-AFCK accident, proof enough. The second photo is the underside of the tail boom with attached stabiliser, the third photo is of the upper fuselage between the wing trailing edge and fin, identified by the circular hatch, located immediately forward of the letter K of the registration in the first photo.

Expatrick 29th Jun 2023 04:31

Now if we could only identify the policeman!

chevvron 29th Jun 2023 05:47


Originally Posted by DHfan (Post 11458525)
Embassies generally are "guarded" and I wouldn't have thought that we could spare or need a platoon or whatever of armed servicemen.

As Portugal was neutral, and our oldest ally, I wouldn't be surprised if UK policemen were part of the embassy staff.

My wife's father spent 2 years as an army corporal in WW2 'guarding' the embassy (or maybe it was the High Commision) in Jamaica so at least in some cases, it did happen.


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