Thank god for that!!

One Vulcan related question i have popped into my head today,and thats the fuselage towards the rear reminds me a bit of the buccaneers. Was any thought given to the area rule principle during the Vulcans design?

I quite agree that the sniping should stop (although if it's merely directed against me that's fine, it doesn't bother me - it just annoys readers of the thread). However, when you use terms like "witch hunt" I think you're possibly overdoing it slightly.

To ask serious questions about TVOC is entirely within reason. Indeed, I can't think of a more suitable forum (if you'll pardon the pun)!

With reference to your comment bubble, I think you're referring to the tail cone which does indeed bulge. However this was a later "add-on" development of the basic airframe, when ECM equipment needed to be fitted. The original B1 (and B2) tail cone was simply tapered to a point.

This is indeed, a very sad thread, and for lots of reasons, not least of all because we see yet again that TVOC are unable or unwilling to make a clear and concise statement regarding accounts and the current state of the project. I wish I could say that I'm surprised - sadly I'm not.

Just one question please......with the exception of the FI, does anyone know why so many 'big cheeses' have called it a day and jumped ship? Do you think they know something that we don't?

Best wishes for 2009.

The Winco

Director and Trustee Resignations (from 07 accounts)

Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Knight KCB AFC FRAeS (resigned 17 September 2007)
Mrs Felicity Irwin DL (resigned 25 August 2006)
Mr Giles Irwin FCA (resigned 29 October 2006)

The Vulcan (and the Valiant and Victor) would appear to have been influenced by Kuchemann who was working at the RAE. See the following article:
Flight article
Google Area Rule for more background on Area Rule

Not that I have ever heard of this.

The Buccaneer was developed by Blackburn whereas the Vulcan tail mod was done by Avro. Although not far apart (pre-M62) and it is not inconceivable, I have never heard of this.

Digressing slightly, have you noticed how certain design styles are carried through from one type to another when successive types are designed by one design shop? Look at the Hunter and Hawk tails. Look at the Boeing tails from the B52 onward (may be B47 too). Almost as if an artist does a concept view and the designers and engineers model the aircraft to fit, just as in the motor industry.

Thanks for the answers chaps, it just occured to me yesterday while watching the restoration DVD's that there is similarities from the rear of them, yeah i know i need to get out more.

Pontious, that rather reminds me of a childhood "I-Spy" handbook which actually included a page of tail side profiles which supposedly enabled the reader/spotter to identify the aircraft's manufacturer, purely by the shape of the tail! Ahh, happy days...

Director and Trustee Resignations (from 07 accounts)

Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Knight KCB AFC FRAeS (resigned 17 September 2007)

Family bereavement...


Mrs Felicity Irwin DL (resigned 25 August 2006)
Mr Giles Irwin FCA (resigned 29 October 2006)

Stated couldn't raise any more money... reckoned without Club members, her own friends and ordinary supporters... they raised £860,000 in 17days then Sir Jack made up shortfall.... after which their position was untenerable within project...



:)

An article on the project, written by one Richard Warrilow, is published in the current issue of "Aerospace Professional" on pages 18 to 20. It is interesting to learn that Dr. Pleming was in fact the initiator of the entire project in 1997 and was not merely invited in as a consultant.

The restoration was a commendable engineering effort indeed and those who carried out the work deserve a great deal of praise for the result. I must admit though, that my eyebrows involuntarily raised themselves when I read the words "dealing with unexpected corrosion". While it is true that nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, a search for corrosion is the foundation of all ageing aircraft inspection programmes: "corrosion in the wing above the undercarriage bays" can hardly be unexpected on any aircraft of the age of G-VLCN. ;)

Does the HLF know more than we do about the VTS project?

I've been trying to find any public domain material on the HLF submission, specifically any details of the education aspects.

I've tried various search terms and dates, but the HLF website always comes back with....

Searched all grant projects for vulcan.
Any ideas anyone? No results have been found. Please start a new search.

Must be a skunk works HLF operation....

HLF have been remarkably quiet throughout the saga. I spent a lot of time trying to get some sense out of them back in the days before the first flight when the project looked like failing. Unfortunately, although they were willing to comment on vague and generalised matters, they would not discuss the facts and figures surrounding their involvement because (they claimed) it was a confidential matter between themselves and TVOC. I found this attitude quite remarkable, considering that it's our money that HLF is spending, but like so many aspects of the story, nothing surprises me any more!

I thought we'd done away with the corrosion problem in the
early '60's by replacing all the Mag Alloy bits?
Ah well! Just goes to show dunnit? :ugh:

Credit crunch hits the Vulcan:

BBC NEWS | England | Leicestershire | Bumpy return for Vulcan 'dream'

Tim,

I actually did an FOI request to the HLF which anyone is welcome to see but it wont tell you a great deal.

I note their latest press article with despair. I haven't done a count up but I guessing that more press releases and news stories they have taken part in have been "if we don't get £x by y date" type. I hope they get a bit more creative and raise the cash but surely they have to change tack to have longer term successes.

Well what could I possibly add?! That BBC report looks so depressingly similar to the ones we've seen before time and time again. Shows all the imagination and enthusiasm of a dead sheep.

Incidentally, I note from that report that the aircraft seems to have shrunk since it left RAF service?!:p

Perhaps a MK 1 size sounds cheaper to run!

Sums the whole project up nicely...


Ho, hum. This old Waddington A.Fitt.E isn't surprised in the least. Every "Liney" electrician carried a box of spare fuses in his tool bag, and they weren't for "just in case". We'd get through a couple of dozen every shift. :rolleyes:

Launch of "XH558 Press Office"
 

NEW YEAR – NEW CHALLENGES – NEWS from VULCAN XH558
A public appeal:

We bring you the launch of “XH558 Press Office” and the first of what will be regular updates across various Internet forums with the intention of spreading the word on this ground breaking aviation project.

XH558, was the first complex aircraft in the world to be privately restored to full flying condition, making her debut Airshow Display at RAF Waddington in July 2008.

Since then, the economic conditions have seriously affected the sponsorship levels expected in order to make continued operation as an airworthy airframe – the only one of its type in the world. The reality is, that unless a shortfall in funding of £1 million is found before early spring, she will be grounded forever.

The project has clear Technical, Engineering and Educational values to the current generation - who have lost sight of the Cold War era, the technical advances made by British industry and the value of engineering research and development to economic prosperity.

These are all values the “Vulcan to The Sky” team aims to continue demonstrating to millions of people throughout the 2009 Display season, leading to a public appeal in order to secure the aircrafts immediate future.

Following a successful fund in 2006, The ’09 Pledge Campaign has already raised nearly £200,000 towards this target in a little over 4 weeks.

We are now widening our appeal outside of Aviation circles, in order to take our story to a wider cross section of the community. These posts will be appearing of forums not only associated with Aviation, but other key interests, like Motorsport, Railways and Photography, together with more Educational and Technical sites.
We have a presence at “Autosport International” this coming weekend at the NEC, together with many other publicity drives in progress across Newspapers, Magazines and Media.
We do however, suffer from the understandable priorities of editors to cover World Events and more humanitarian charities.

If you feel able to support our project in any way, you will find more details on Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan To The Sky Trust together with the Pledge link, where you will be able to make a monthly or one off “promise” to pay any level of donation, only called providing the full £1 million is committed to by others – hence ensuring the successful implementation of a full Display Season. The site also has a live feed to the Pledge database, so you can easily check progress of the campaign at any time. (Look under Home > Pledge Data)

PLEASE HELP US SAVE XH558 FOR THE NATION – IT IS THE PEOPLE’S AIRCRAFT – ONLY YOU CAN SAVE HER NOW!

We would like to thank-you in advance for any help you can give to us.

Any person or Editor requiring more information can contact 0116 247 8145 to receive
a more detailed report via email.
For commercial sponsorship opportunities:- Call 07803 141483

Note to Forum Admin: This post is placed in an area of your site thought best to gain maximum attention.
This is an important news item we are sure your readers will be interested in. We hope to count on your support.
No communication channels or replies will be possible by this service. It is the only "official" information outside of the VTST site.

Gonzo


I've been trying to find any public domain material on the HLF submission, specifically any details of the education aspects.
====================================================

WHAT education aspects? the education manager has been in post some 13-4 months and as yet I have seen NO evidence of an Education Aspect to this project.... whats she been doing for 13 months????
:confused::confused:

This is the link to the education bit on the site, hope it helps but dont shout at me if it dosnt!


Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan To The Sky Trust

whats she been doing for 13 months?

er... let me guess...

Isn't this symptomatic of the whole current situation. Negative press releases and lack of information.
At this time of needing more funding they should be trumpeting last years achievements to show providers of funds what the money produces over and above the appearance at Airshows.
Saying if we don't pay up the Vulcan won't be able to fly again is not good enough. How many pupils from how many schools plan to make educational visits this year? How does that compare with last year? What Airshows are already booked for 2009? If departments are not performing then they should show they have an action plan to either get them to perform or reduce the cost associated with the department.

Pleming may well have been the right man to bring the project to its first year of displays, but I can't help thinking the leadership needs to change towards a much more positive thinking promotional style. It. can't be easy for the team to generate the enthusiasm when they work under the Pleming Sword of Damocles...

Well if you look at the slideshow which is available to view under the educational section abut the history I think, it winds up begging for money too, the only thing it is short of is asking for their pocket money.

Surely in all the reference works available some good informative educational information should be online for people of all ages and interests to capture their imagination.

Look at the properties of the pdf file- the author is one R Pleming. Nuff said

Maybe that's part of his educational package - teaching kids that if they play their cards right, they might get an inexplicably well-paid job like his when they grow up? :p

Tim,

Whilst I support the quest for truth etc you have to stop the constant personal zoning in in Dr P.

I agree that he is (or his company) paid a handsome sum but that point has been made to death and not really relevant to the educational aspect mate.

One of my friends is involved in the education program at Brunty and i did speak to her this morning to post some information on what is done etc, but after reading a couple of the posts since mine last night i wont bother, i simpy have neither the time nor the wish to feed the troll anymore, if you want to know why T.V.O.C. have been reluctent to use this another fora then the answer is on this very page.

I for one would love to see her / him / them post some information. If misconceptions can be set aside it's good for everyone and the project.

The issue about not posting on here due to perceptions and beliefs I think is misguided. If the doubters are won over what a difference it would make and not posting because you think you'll get slated or asked awkward questions is the opposite of what is needed.

I hope you could persuade them to talk to us, after all, is it not still the case that you can't post on the VTST forum unless you pay their membership fees (unless things have changed in which case apologies).

I will ask again though i doubt i will have any success, i dont know enough personally about the education aspect to be able to say what it entails but i do know that it is something taken seriously, its less of a case of perceptions and beliefs but rather a case of individuals who for whatever reason have an issue with T.V.O.C. and use the various fora to pounce on anything posted, i know my friend has no wish to have her efforts torn to bits by disgruntled people. The T.V.O.C. forum is viewable in parts but im not sure if it is possible to post on there.

This is very sad and, I would suggest, misguided. Misunderstanding and misconceptions can never be challenged and resolved by simply withdrawing from communication. Far better to make your case, respond to comments and suggestions, and strive to get people on board rather than leaving them to speculate and assume that the 'gossip' is true.

In addition, marketig theory, practice, commonsense and my own experience all tell me that ANY feedback an organisation can get from its potential customers is very useful indeed in understanding your market. In trying to understand what the 'market' of potential donors thinks, I'd place an aviation website pretty high up the list, and PPrune higher up than many others!

BTW, I am a VTST Member and donor and I'm now off to chuck another tenner in the pot!

I agree However the reluctence is due to various individuals constant use of this forum to have a go at whatever T.V.O.C. does, sometimes it seems that they could say that everything is great, they have loads of money and everyone involved is a sheer b****y genius and someone would still whinge about something! My friend is a normal person who gives their time to help out and in her own words she has " no wish to have my efforts used by spoilt children to have another i hate T.V.O.C. rant" her words not mine. Sorry if that upsets anyone but her view is based on reading this and other fora and to be honest i dont blame her.

Andrew, I suggest you read the contents of Post 1989 and 1990 before making a comment like that about my post! ;)

Likewise, you suggestion that I "stop zoning in" on poor Dr.P is probably the daftest thing I've heard in quite a while. For heaven's sake, if he's not the crux of the problem then who the hell is?!

Prove it then Tim, you keep boring us all to death with this so you prove to us that he is the crux of all the problems and i will give £100 to the charity of your choice, i for one am sick to the back teeth of your petty hate campaign, so you show me the proof and il stump up the cash.

bubbles This thread is for discussion of the Vulcan project, simple as that. If you don't happen to agree with me (and the others who share my views) that's fine, but please confine your comments to the project and stop this constant sniping at me. I've tried (as have others) to hold a sensible discussion/argument with you, but you simply ignore what is said. It's very tedious to be constantly having to reply to you and the other readers of this thread obviously don't want to hear about it. I think we've all established that you think that TVOC/Dr Pleming is doing a great job. Okay, enough already, you'll just have to accept that quite a few others (myself included) happen to think otherwise. Now, can we please move on?

Is there any chance of the Vulcan doing a photo shoot at the SEN airshow and steaming along the seafront? All please note my request.

That was exactly the response i expected Tim, when challenged to prove your claims of Pleming being the crux of T.V.O.C.'s problems you do your usual and start the waffle, i think you will find that i have been discussing 558 and the project and it is you that have been having ago may i refer you to what Andrew said about "personal zoning"? I dont think that Pleming has done a good job, nor do i think he has done a bad job as i simply do not have sufficient solid and reliable information to make a decision, that however has'nt stopped you from constantly attacking the guy, and i guess from your post you wont be taking me up on my offer then? That in its self speaks volumes so i suggest you take your own advice.

All i have ever asked is why he is useless etc and at no point have i attacked you or made it personal in any shape or form.

don't you ever shut up?:rolleyes:

HZ123 What is the SEN airshow?

I suppose any venue is possible if the organisers shell-out enough cash, although I guess it all rather depends if 558 participates in this year's air show calendar. If the info from TVOC is correct then one assumes that the project will have been wrapped-up by then.

Incidentally, I doubt if 558 would be "steaming" along anywhere, given that there are fatigue convservation limits to be considered now, and CAA safety rules just to make sure you never get too close to anything and enjoy yourself too much! :)