MMMmmmiles Aircraft
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Droolin'
Hi Aerohack,
I think you need a flight in the Magister or the Falcon! EMail me to arrange.
I am so keen to acquire a Hawk Major. A replica would be nice but - well nothing like a rebuild (even though a flier would probably incorporate a lot of new wood).
Most of the drawings eh?
Wow!
I would love a set of those - I mean, what could I do to obtain a set? Can you make it happen? What exactly does he have?
A good insurance policy against the unlikely event of ever acquiring an original plane.
If Ken Ellis (died- in- the- wool Miles Nut and bl@@dy nice bloke too!) thought that the Falcon was pretty - he will have palpitations at a Hawk. Grab a copy of Feb03 FlyPast pronto if you like Miles planes. Join The Miles Collection too.
A replica Hawk shouldn't present too many challenges - all pretty simple if the Maggie is anything to go by.
It is also less complex - manual flaps for example on the earlier ones as opposed to the vacuum-operated flaps on the later machines.
ANY LEADS ON A HAWK GREATLY APPRECIATED PLEASE!!
Anybody know where there might be a set of Maggie wings? There is a fuselage for sale (for too much money I regret...)
Gemini - A DH-powered Gemini project - a very complete machine - is owned by Tim Moore of SkySport. It could be had for not much money I believe provided it was staying in the UK.
If you want a really good flier - Guy Valvekens in Belgium has his Gemini up for sale. A comprehensive rebuild for sale at a fraction of what it must have cost.
I don't know of any other Miles Aircraft for sale worldwide at the moment - maybe a Messenger in Oz...
M28 Mercury - Hans Kolby Hansen - good old boy and dear friend of mine - has the worlds only surviving M28 (a bit like a Messenger but with shorter wings, no central fin and retractable gear). A real speed machine in its day.
I had a letter yesterday from a bloke in Switzerland enclosing some 50's photos of his mates M28 (ex-G-AJFE), with a 'where is it now?request. Stuffed is the answer although I believe they walked away from it....
Hans' machine is in a museum in Stauning Denmark at the moment but he will bring it here soon.
I flew it with him to Denmark for a CofA a couple of years back. Great machine.
Great thread, wonderful anecdotes.
Please keep it coming, speak to ex-Miles people who you know and get their stories from them.
We need photos, photos and more photos for posterity - maybe for inclusion in the forthcoming definitive history of Miles.
Saw the 2 Maggies in formation at OW on Airshow World 2001 on Discovery Wings last night. I am working on getting the Breighton Maggie (or rather somebody up there is!) down to OW for a 3-ship.
Wouldn't that be great?
Tea time - speak to you all again!
I'll come back on tomorrow if I get time and post a copy of a letter in response to an EMail that asked me 2 questions - 1. why shouldn't you sideslip the Mag? and 2. why is it sometimes flown from the front? We always flew them from the rear.
HP.
I think you need a flight in the Magister or the Falcon! EMail me to arrange.
I am so keen to acquire a Hawk Major. A replica would be nice but - well nothing like a rebuild (even though a flier would probably incorporate a lot of new wood).
Most of the drawings eh?
Wow!
I would love a set of those - I mean, what could I do to obtain a set? Can you make it happen? What exactly does he have?
A good insurance policy against the unlikely event of ever acquiring an original plane.
If Ken Ellis (died- in- the- wool Miles Nut and bl@@dy nice bloke too!) thought that the Falcon was pretty - he will have palpitations at a Hawk. Grab a copy of Feb03 FlyPast pronto if you like Miles planes. Join The Miles Collection too.
A replica Hawk shouldn't present too many challenges - all pretty simple if the Maggie is anything to go by.
It is also less complex - manual flaps for example on the earlier ones as opposed to the vacuum-operated flaps on the later machines.
ANY LEADS ON A HAWK GREATLY APPRECIATED PLEASE!!
Anybody know where there might be a set of Maggie wings? There is a fuselage for sale (for too much money I regret...)
Gemini - A DH-powered Gemini project - a very complete machine - is owned by Tim Moore of SkySport. It could be had for not much money I believe provided it was staying in the UK.
If you want a really good flier - Guy Valvekens in Belgium has his Gemini up for sale. A comprehensive rebuild for sale at a fraction of what it must have cost.
I don't know of any other Miles Aircraft for sale worldwide at the moment - maybe a Messenger in Oz...
M28 Mercury - Hans Kolby Hansen - good old boy and dear friend of mine - has the worlds only surviving M28 (a bit like a Messenger but with shorter wings, no central fin and retractable gear). A real speed machine in its day.
I had a letter yesterday from a bloke in Switzerland enclosing some 50's photos of his mates M28 (ex-G-AJFE), with a 'where is it now?request. Stuffed is the answer although I believe they walked away from it....
Hans' machine is in a museum in Stauning Denmark at the moment but he will bring it here soon.
I flew it with him to Denmark for a CofA a couple of years back. Great machine.
Great thread, wonderful anecdotes.
Please keep it coming, speak to ex-Miles people who you know and get their stories from them.
We need photos, photos and more photos for posterity - maybe for inclusion in the forthcoming definitive history of Miles.
Saw the 2 Maggies in formation at OW on Airshow World 2001 on Discovery Wings last night. I am working on getting the Breighton Maggie (or rather somebody up there is!) down to OW for a 3-ship.
Wouldn't that be great?
Tea time - speak to you all again!
I'll come back on tomorrow if I get time and post a copy of a letter in response to an EMail that asked me 2 questions - 1. why shouldn't you sideslip the Mag? and 2. why is it sometimes flown from the front? We always flew them from the rear.
HP.
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ANY LEADS ON A HAWK GREATLY APPRECIATED PLEASE
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Aerohack
I recall see ZS-CNL at Biggin Hill in those days, and 'RIE later. Sorry to hear it is no more.
The Zaunkoenig ex 'LUA you reported on at ILA, plus no doubt its sister, I saw at various places, the first time however at Kidlington, when it belonged to P.J. Sullivan or O'Sullivan, perhaps the person who took it to Ireland prior to its returning to its place of birth. My friend Tommy Thompson, who sent me the Spiteful details, flew it at Farnborough (at least, I think he said he did). We met at the RAFA show in 2001, and he recalled landing at Shoreham in a Blenheim, so that the commander could visit a lady-friend there. Tommy and John Cunningham went back a long way, all the way up to Tridents for China. I read the recent book on JC, and found the end very rushed, as though the author has run out of material. Pity.
Tommy was at Supermarine's, and told the story of having to ferry the entry tickets for the postwar show to Heston. He could do nothing other than sit on them, with his head out of the Seafire's cockpit!
In case it is of interest, Grumman Widgeon N444M is well, it was moved to the USA to enable its owner to water it occasionally. He was getting rather frustrated here. He told me that his mother may have been the reason for banner-towing to have been banned (bannered?) when it was. His mother was friendly with Duncan Sandys, and was one day startled by a low tow-er. Perhaps she jokingly said, Duncan, can't you put a stop to it, which apparently he did. Mike had a Messenger in his collection, didn't he?
Your tale of being chased by Viv at Eastleigh parallels mine of being barked at by Eric Thurston's dog whilst wandering round the E.P.9 production at Stapleford. I had travelled by train and tube to Theydon Bois, and recall the conductor's mirth when I pronounced it 'bwa' in my best French. Believe Eric is still instructing at over 80.
I recall see ZS-CNL at Biggin Hill in those days, and 'RIE later. Sorry to hear it is no more.
The Zaunkoenig ex 'LUA you reported on at ILA, plus no doubt its sister, I saw at various places, the first time however at Kidlington, when it belonged to P.J. Sullivan or O'Sullivan, perhaps the person who took it to Ireland prior to its returning to its place of birth. My friend Tommy Thompson, who sent me the Spiteful details, flew it at Farnborough (at least, I think he said he did). We met at the RAFA show in 2001, and he recalled landing at Shoreham in a Blenheim, so that the commander could visit a lady-friend there. Tommy and John Cunningham went back a long way, all the way up to Tridents for China. I read the recent book on JC, and found the end very rushed, as though the author has run out of material. Pity.
Tommy was at Supermarine's, and told the story of having to ferry the entry tickets for the postwar show to Heston. He could do nothing other than sit on them, with his head out of the Seafire's cockpit!
In case it is of interest, Grumman Widgeon N444M is well, it was moved to the USA to enable its owner to water it occasionally. He was getting rather frustrated here. He told me that his mother may have been the reason for banner-towing to have been banned (bannered?) when it was. His mother was friendly with Duncan Sandys, and was one day startled by a low tow-er. Perhaps she jokingly said, Duncan, can't you put a stop to it, which apparently he did. Mike had a Messenger in his collection, didn't he?
Your tale of being chased by Viv at Eastleigh parallels mine of being barked at by Eric Thurston's dog whilst wandering round the E.P.9 production at Stapleford. I had travelled by train and tube to Theydon Bois, and recall the conductor's mirth when I pronounced it 'bwa' in my best French. Believe Eric is still instructing at over 80.
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Thanks everybody for the comments on the photos.
Now I have a question, seeing as I re-watched 633 Squadron last night - which Messenger was that at the beginning, and what has become of it (hopefully survived better than some of the Mossies in that movie!).
Now I have a question, seeing as I re-watched 633 Squadron last night - which Messenger was that at the beginning, and what has become of it (hopefully survived better than some of the Mossies in that movie!).
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atb1943: There were indeed two Zaunkoenigs at Berlin, the other (yellow) a post-war example. Your mention of Mike Dunkerly's lovely Widgeon reminds me again of Viv Bellamy, who was at the controls of the SCAN-30 (French-built Widgeon) G-ARIX when it came to grief landing in the Solent in the summer of 1961. The SCAN had long been familiar at Croydon and Biggin in French, Kenyan and Irish marks. Viv and his passengers were slightly injured and rescued by launch. The remains of the SCAN were hauled ashore by tugs, if I remember right. Similarly, I think I'm correct in saying that the chap who either owned or was going to buy the SCAN, a yachtbuilder, later acquired a Piaggio P.136 which also ended up partially submerged after a landing accident in the Solent, and finished its days dumped at RNAS Lee-on-Solent. Mike's Messenger is G-AKVZ. Banner towing? Prentice G-AOKH used to trawl up and down the south coast beaches advertising Lamtex Rugs. Once, when I must have been the only 'likely lad' hanging around Portsmouth Airport, its pilot — Yeadon based if I remember — beckoned me over and invited me to accompany him (I assumed as 'lookout', because legend had it that he used to read a paperback whilst going back and forth, but I saw no evidence of that; I imagine he just wanted some company on what must have been a pretty tedious exercise). So off we went, and all proceeded well as we cruised back and forth. Then, the windscreen started to become slightly obscured by what must have been oil. "Hold her steady, will you?" said the pilot, then hauled himself half out of the cockpit to stand with one leg on the wing root, one hand steadying himself on the windscreen frame while the other polished vigorously at the 'screen with a bit of rag. Gripping that stick very firmly, his 14-year-old passenger quickly determined that if — as seemed very likely to me — the pilot should have fallen overboard, he was going to follow. That Prentice seemed very big and intimidating for the few anxious moments before the Lamtex man dropped safely back into the left seat.
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633 Squadron
Hi Damien B,
There is indeed better news on the Messenger than the Mossies - 633 squadron really is about 'what happens when you deliberately raise the gear on a perfectly serviceable aircraft on landing and then set fire to the thing...
The Messenger is none other than G-AKBO - alive, kicking and will probably fly this coming weekend at Turweston, where it currently resides.
THere is a fascinating chapter on KBO in Clive DuCros' story of the full size wooden replica of the prototype Spitfire.
KBO - Kings Cup Winner in '54 and star of 633 Squadron - is arguably the most original and most historic Messenger still flying.
Most of what you see today is what left the Newtownards factory in 1947.
THese are great machines that do what they were designed to do so well.
THe most incredible STOL performance - every bit as good as a Storch but on half the power, half the fuel burn, twice the range and the ability to carry - in wartime configuraton - a pilot and 4 fuly kitted troops (plus a rocking great wireless!) in and out of short, unprepared fields.
One story has it that an early Messie forced landed in a ploughed field. Once they fixed it (new prop I think) they couldn't fly it out because it just wouldn't unstick from the quag.
Guess what they did?
Took the wheels off and jury-rigged a complete lorry axle and wheels across the U/C legs! It flew out - no drama.
Those were the days.....
THe 3 'Tails of the Fifties' books by Peter Campbell - organiser of the Great Vintage Flying Weekend at Kemble in May - (a must )- are absolutely fascinating to those who are following this exciting thread.
Wonderful anecdotes.
Flying is a lot more disciplined these days - some of the stories will make your hair stand on end.
No library is complete without them.
EMail me any of you please for further clarification of anything I have posted (as indeed some of you have already).
HP
There is indeed better news on the Messenger than the Mossies - 633 squadron really is about 'what happens when you deliberately raise the gear on a perfectly serviceable aircraft on landing and then set fire to the thing...
The Messenger is none other than G-AKBO - alive, kicking and will probably fly this coming weekend at Turweston, where it currently resides.
THere is a fascinating chapter on KBO in Clive DuCros' story of the full size wooden replica of the prototype Spitfire.
KBO - Kings Cup Winner in '54 and star of 633 Squadron - is arguably the most original and most historic Messenger still flying.
Most of what you see today is what left the Newtownards factory in 1947.
THese are great machines that do what they were designed to do so well.
THe most incredible STOL performance - every bit as good as a Storch but on half the power, half the fuel burn, twice the range and the ability to carry - in wartime configuraton - a pilot and 4 fuly kitted troops (plus a rocking great wireless!) in and out of short, unprepared fields.
One story has it that an early Messie forced landed in a ploughed field. Once they fixed it (new prop I think) they couldn't fly it out because it just wouldn't unstick from the quag.
Guess what they did?
Took the wheels off and jury-rigged a complete lorry axle and wheels across the U/C legs! It flew out - no drama.
Those were the days.....
THe 3 'Tails of the Fifties' books by Peter Campbell - organiser of the Great Vintage Flying Weekend at Kemble in May - (a must )- are absolutely fascinating to those who are following this exciting thread.
Wonderful anecdotes.
Flying is a lot more disciplined these days - some of the stories will make your hair stand on end.
No library is complete without them.
EMail me any of you please for further clarification of anything I have posted (as indeed some of you have already).
HP
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No question that the lorry wheels/ploughed field story is absolutely true. George Miles gave me a photo of it, but as is always the way with such things I'm damned if I've been able to find it for many years. No doubt it'll show up, tucked into some long forgotten book or magazine.
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Ahhh N444M! I can still recall a dreadful day at school in 1981, grotty weather, never a hope for a keen enthusiast to see an interesting aeroplane during breaktime... is that the noise of pistons? Indeed it was, and a Grumman Widgeon hove into view... briefly... before disappearing into the murk. I'd never seen one in the flesh (except for Airfix's little kit) so it was a great delight.
Not so for the pilot, who half an hour or so later force landed on a reservoir (Bough Beach or Bewl Water?) in deteriorating weather (!), struck something solid and foundered. A few days later I came across the Widgeon drip-drying and looking sorry for itself in the Surrey Aviation hangar at Biggin!
Sorry to hear she's gone back to America, used to love seeing her flying around. And those two Geese that appeared at Legends... are they still here?
Ooops, sorry, back to Miles...
Not so for the pilot, who half an hour or so later force landed on a reservoir (Bough Beach or Bewl Water?) in deteriorating weather (!), struck something solid and foundered. A few days later I came across the Widgeon drip-drying and looking sorry for itself in the Surrey Aviation hangar at Biggin!
Sorry to hear she's gone back to America, used to love seeing her flying around. And those two Geese that appeared at Legends... are they still here?
Ooops, sorry, back to Miles...
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On one of my visits to the UK I took my brother down to Biggin, because he knew of my interest but had never been involved. In the S & K hangar I noticed the wreck of what was obviously an amphibian, and asked around for its identity.
Some months later I was told there was a British visitor in the office so I went to say hallo. During the course of conversation I asked him what he flew, and he replied D140, oh, and I have a Grumman Widgeon. Not 444M, I asked. He almost fell off the seat, for twas Mike D himself. I have since sat in it and tried to wriggle down the starboard side into the hull, to pop out of the hatch (but as I mentioned earlier, I used to slip through cracks in hangar doors - no longer). I recently stayed with Mike in his lovely house on Mallorca. He now has a Baron too.
Incidentally Aerohack, what did you do with the two Knight Twisters at Eastleigh - got 'em in yer shed???
cheers
Some months later I was told there was a British visitor in the office so I went to say hallo. During the course of conversation I asked him what he flew, and he replied D140, oh, and I have a Grumman Widgeon. Not 444M, I asked. He almost fell off the seat, for twas Mike D himself. I have since sat in it and tried to wriggle down the starboard side into the hull, to pop out of the hatch (but as I mentioned earlier, I used to slip through cracks in hangar doors - no longer). I recently stayed with Mike in his lovely house on Mallorca. He now has a Baron too.
Incidentally Aerohack, what did you do with the two Knight Twisters at Eastleigh - got 'em in yer shed???
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Gosh, we really did tread the same ground, atb1943. The Knight Twisters! They used to be in the HAC clubroom, as I recall. Last I heard they were in a shed at Biggin, which would figure because the owner was one C J de Vere, and I assume this to be the same Chris de Vere who ran a charter company (Interflight?) out of Biggin with an elderly Aero Commander 520 that was wrecked (on the ground) in one of the great storms.
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Ah, the Knight Twisters! In Janaury 1977 a friend and I made a really thorough job of Biggin Hill, peered in every shed and hut that we could and still didn't manage to see the Twisters that were supposed to be there. There was also supposed to have been the nose of a Lancaster with Vendair - there was a shed with Vendair on it; the nose might have been the one now at Lambeth. We did see plenty of wrecks though - but not Cobbie Moore's Gipsy Moth wreck, despite him letting us take a turn around Surrey Aviation! Nice to see that one's flying again.
Interflight - yep, they had the yellow and black Aero Commander 520 ('SJU?) and a Air & Space 18 gyrocopter (and the remains of another) lived in the same blister hangar! Whatever happened to that? Those blister hangars were amazing, one occasion there was a US reg'd Learjet shoehorned into the one next to Express Aviation!
Interflight - yep, they had the yellow and black Aero Commander 520 ('SJU?) and a Air & Space 18 gyrocopter (and the remains of another) lived in the same blister hangar! Whatever happened to that? Those blister hangars were amazing, one occasion there was a US reg'd Learjet shoehorned into the one next to Express Aviation!
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Hairyplane:
Delighted to hear it! I cringe when I see that poor Mosquito belly in - even my girlfriend thought it was a disgrace, but then I am slowly converting her into a hardened aircraft spotter.
There is indeed better news on the Messenger than the Mossies - 633 squadron really is about 'what happens when you deliberately raise the gear on a perfectly serviceable aircraft on landing and then set fire to the thing...
The Messenger is none other than G-AKBO - alive, kicking and will probably fly this coming weekend at Turweston, where it currently resides.
The Messenger is none other than G-AKBO - alive, kicking and will probably fly this coming weekend at Turweston, where it currently resides.
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G-AKBO
Hi Damien B,
You are in Northants - KBO is at Turweston.
THere is a Vintage Aircraft Club fly in this weekend at Turdy. I think its Sunday -I haven't checked yet.
I plan to fly the Messenger if the weather is good/ wind down the strip (big-time groundlooper!).
Wht not come on over?
HP
You are in Northants - KBO is at Turweston.
THere is a Vintage Aircraft Club fly in this weekend at Turdy. I think its Sunday -I haven't checked yet.
I plan to fly the Messenger if the weather is good/ wind down the strip (big-time groundlooper!).
Wht not come on over?
HP
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I may just do that - might even drag the other half along so she can see for herself that something survived the 633 filming!
Can't find anything on Turweston's site about it so if you find out what day it's on, times etc. that'd be handy!
Can't find anything on Turweston's site about it so if you find out what day it's on, times etc. that'd be handy!
Last edited by DamienB; 16th Jan 2003 at 09:08.
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MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmiles
Glad to oblige!
THe Vintage Aircraft Club is holding a Snowball Rally at Turweston on Saturday 18th January.
There will be some scoff - my bacon butty there last Saturday was MMMMmmmouthwatering.
Ask in the club or tower for somebody to point me out.
Even if it isn't flyable we can sit in the Messenger and play film stars (er.... not the car-in the cargo- hold scene in Titanic you understand - just the opening sequences of 633....)
If it is flyable - wind down the slot etc. I plan to clean the aircraft, pump the tyres up and go for a gentle chug around the circuit. (The things I have to do for the new owner...!)
Come along if so and if you like.
She's a real sweety (the plane, not Kate Winslett..)
HP
THe Vintage Aircraft Club is holding a Snowball Rally at Turweston on Saturday 18th January.
There will be some scoff - my bacon butty there last Saturday was MMMMmmmouthwatering.
Ask in the club or tower for somebody to point me out.
Even if it isn't flyable we can sit in the Messenger and play film stars (er.... not the car-in the cargo- hold scene in Titanic you understand - just the opening sequences of 633....)
If it is flyable - wind down the slot etc. I plan to clean the aircraft, pump the tyres up and go for a gentle chug around the circuit. (The things I have to do for the new owner...!)
Come along if so and if you like.
She's a real sweety (the plane, not Kate Winslett..)
HP
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Right, will do! Forecast winds look to be entirely what you don't want though.
And what's wrong with our Kate...?
Oh yes - what time does it all kick offf...?
And what's wrong with our Kate...?
Oh yes - what time does it all kick offf...?
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VAC 'do' at Turdy
Hi DB,
If its looking flyable I'll ge there mid-morning. Otherwise, probably around midday.
If its really grotty I'll be in the cafe troughing a bacon buttie.
Kates OK - bit dumpy these days. Nice t@ts....
HP
If its looking flyable I'll ge there mid-morning. Otherwise, probably around midday.
If its really grotty I'll be in the cafe troughing a bacon buttie.
Kates OK - bit dumpy these days. Nice t@ts....
HP
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MMMmmiles Witney Straight
I spoke to Ron Souch earlier.
He is making good progress on the ex - 'Irish' Miles Witney Straight.
For those who don't know the aircraft it looks like a Magister but with a wider fuselage and a side by side cabin (well it would have to be wider really wouldn't it....?!)
It also has a similar sloped forward screen to the Falcon but in a one-piece moulding.
For those of you who know the White Waltham Monarch - it looks a lot like that and just as rare.
Not as gorgeous as the Falcon but MMMmmm.....Nice.
I am off to see him soon and will report back thereafter.
Won't it be great to see one of these fine machines back in the air??!!
He is also 'doing' a/ the Foster Wickner Wicko ( bet I spelt that wrong..) too.
HP
He is making good progress on the ex - 'Irish' Miles Witney Straight.
For those who don't know the aircraft it looks like a Magister but with a wider fuselage and a side by side cabin (well it would have to be wider really wouldn't it....?!)
It also has a similar sloped forward screen to the Falcon but in a one-piece moulding.
For those of you who know the White Waltham Monarch - it looks a lot like that and just as rare.
Not as gorgeous as the Falcon but MMMmmm.....Nice.
I am off to see him soon and will report back thereafter.
Won't it be great to see one of these fine machines back in the air??!!
He is also 'doing' a/ the Foster Wickner Wicko ( bet I spelt that wrong..) too.
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Glad the contact with Ron proved fruitful. Any further word on prospects for rescuing the WW Monarch? (Oh, and there's no 'c' in Wikner, but anyone with your feel for MMMmmmiles aircraft may be forgiven for such a trivial inaccuracy when it comes to, ahem, lesser craft! Oops, do I hear a groundswell of outrage from Wicko fans?)