British Caledonian Boeing 707s

[phantom menace]

Originally Posted by browndhc2

Great thread. A couple of Br 707 Flight deck pictures.

Great old days - No GPS or FMS. Note the CRP 5 by the F/O's DV window and an INS ..

[Gordomac]

Absolutely stunning. No,. not the 70 but the cally birds.!

I started my career as a Cally Trainee Crewing Assistant. Yep, made loadsa tea, but, the upside was that these stunners would waft into crewing and beg for favours. You know, week-end off, best trips etc. I just could not, ever, say "no" !

[dixi188]

Was there a story about the 747s being sent on the wrong routes the day BA took over? Something about a Combi on Tokyo.
After my time there, I left in 83.

[flapsin]

Ah, that would be a CRP-5
Bob

[Akrotiri bad boy]

This thread has been twanging a memory chord and led me to search through my aviation stash looking for a publication I came across back in the '70's. "A Lion Over The Atlantic" appears to have been published in conjunction with Esso Air World and contains a fleet list dated 1st November 1974. The fleet at that time included nine 707-320C's:

G-AWWD Flagship Bonnie Scotland
G-AWTK County of Angus
G-AXRS County of Caithness
G-ATZC County of Stirling
G-AYEX County of Argyll
G-AYSI County of Sutherland
G-AZJM County of Ayr
G-BAWP County of Inverness
G-BCLZ County of Lanark

The "Lion" continues; "Following the success of a major two-month US coast-to-coast sales drive BCAL decided to launch services on the London-Manchester-New York and London-Glasgow (Prestwick)- New York routes in June 1973. Known as the Golden Lion services, they will operate a total of 42 flights a week on the four scheduled North Atlantic routes next summer, using Boeing 707-320's refurbished to give them the new wide-look interior."

The "Lion" shows a route map covering such diverse destinations as: the Seychelles, Ndola, Monrovia, Bathurst, Sao Paulo, Santiago, and Los Angeles. However it's the domestic route London-Edinburgh-Glenrothes-Dundee that piques my interest. Which aircraft served the latter two airfields in particular Glenrothes as it only has a 700m runway?

Akro

[SWBKCB]

However it's the domestic route London-Edinburgh-Glenrothes-Dundee that piques my interest. Which aircraft served the latter two airfields in particular Glenrothes as it only has a 700m runway?

Some sort of coach service?

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Akrotiri bad boy

The "Lion" shows a route map covering such diverse destinations as: the Seychelles, Ndola, Monrovia, Bathurst, Sao Paulo, Santiago, and Los Angeles. However it's the domestic route London-Edinburgh-Glenrothes-Dundee that piques my interest. Which aircraft served the latter two airfields in particular Glenrothes as it only has a 700m runway?

Akro

I remember that one as I was in Edinburgh at the time. They used a Bedford VAS 29-seater coach hired from the Northern Scottish bus company at Dundee. Glenrothes is along the route. Such vehicles were already several years old, and out of production, at the time. I think I recall it had B Cal decals and branding, but not complete livery. It used to sit outside the old Edinburgh terminal in the evening looking rather dilapidated, with dim lights inside and out, waiting for the evening One-Eleven to arrive. I don't know how many round trips a day it made or what the loads were.

[Quietplease]

How to fly a 707 in 69 pages

[Flightrider]

The answers to a lot of points earlier up the thread can be found in a slightly unusual source, but a comprehensive one - the collection of scanned commemorative Flight Covers (First Day Covers of the type) which BCal looked to issue pretty religiously for all events. There are five pages of them and you can scroll through in gallery format to see route inaugurals, aircraft deliveries and generally who flew it - I certainly saw a lot of familiar names in there.

BCal Flight Covers 3

First 707 to Houston 23 October 1977

First 747 scheduled flight Gatwick-Kano-Lagos on G-BJXN was 16 May 1982

The last BAC 1-11 West African Coastal service was flown by G-AYOP on 25 October 1978 - Gatwick-Casablanca-Las Palmas-Banjul-Freetown.

First 747 to Hong Kong 21 November 1986

The introduction of the A310s is covered extensively (including a Gatwick-Jersey in G-BKWT!) but I can't seem to see one for the final 707 service. Interesting the Captain on the PA31 on the first scheduled Gatwick-Birmingham flight later appears as one of the A310 Captains.

It's one heck of a resource - well worth a look and plenty of the 707 history in there as well.

[Sotonsean]

Flightrider

Thanks for the update especially the information regarding the first Boeing 747 flight to Hong Kong as I could have been certain that it was before 1986.

I can remember feeling deeply upset at the time when BCAL announced there plans to withdraw the A310. At the time I thought it was a perfect fit for the airline. I was looking forward to a modern BCAL fleet of A310 and A320s. If only the A310 was still in the fleet when the BCAL liveried A320 visited LGW, that would have been a great photo.

With an incoming fleet of A310 and A320s, BCAL also had the order for MD11s to replace the DC10s, and possible future orders for the Boeing 747-300 or even Boeing 747-400. If all went to plan the BCAL fleet would have been completely changed within a few years but we all know what happened.

The BCAL website is indeed a treasure trove of information and thoroughly recommended.

I came across the site what must be twenty years ago or at least in it's infancy. But it really surprises me by how many people are totally unaware of it, especially those interested in the former and great BCAL. The same thing applies to the Dan-Air remembered website.

[bean]

Originally Posted by Sotonsean

Flightrider

​​​​London Gatwick to Hong Kong was always via Dubai. Although Dubai was in affect a technical stop BCAL had full passenger rights on the routing. Dubai was very much part of the schedule for BCAL.

London Gatwick-Dubai-Hong Kong was originally flown by a DC10-30 when it inaugurated on the 01 August 1980. The route was upgraded to a Boeing 747-200 in April 1982. LGW-DBX-HKG was BCAL's first route to be operated by their recently purchased Boeing 747-230B G-BJXN.

Having previously been owned by Lufthansa as D-ABYG, this was the first ever Boeing 747-200 to enter the BCAL fleet. Although BCAL had previously leased a Boeing 747-100 G-BDPZ in 1978 to cover the grounding of the DC10s.

Regarding Jersey European at London Stansted.

Jersey European Airways never operated the Dart Herald in it's entire history.

Jersey European Airways operated seasonal between Jersey and London Stansted along with a service to Belfast City. Jersey European Airways initially used the DHC Twin Otter when they started operations at London Stansted in 1979. Flights would soon be upgraded to be operated by the Shorts 330/360.

Wrong. For summer 1980 Express Air Services operated a STN-JER service. with a JEA flight number with a Herald. This along, with some other routes was part of an EAS/JEA tie up for summer 1980 only

[bean]

Originally Posted by Flightrider

The BCal website (a trove of good stuff) notes that larger aircraft were needed for services to Africa and G-BJXN joined in May 1982 flying to Lagos. If that's what the BCal site says, I'd take it as given otherwise dozens of people would have been in touch to correct it long before now.

And on the off-topic subject of the Jersey European Herald - that's what the BAA 1980 timetable says for Stansted - airline code JY and aircraft type HPH. Whether that's what actually happened and they borrowed one from Air UK or BAF or something, or what they published as a timetable didn't actually materialise, who knows - but that is what is listed.

Express Air Services

[Sotonsean]

Originally Posted by bean

Express Air Services

Wrong was a rather forthright response.

I was aware of the Express Air Services Herald STN-JEY flights during 1980 but I was under the impression that they were cargo flights operated by EAS themselves.

I stand corrected by the fact they operated on behalf and in cooperation with Jersey European Airways.

[dixi188]

For those not aware, Express Air Services became Channel Express via Express Air Freight and now trades as Jet2. The flight numbers are still EXS but also LS.
Sorry, this is a bit far away from BCAL 707s.

[bean]

Originally Posted by Sotonsean

Wrong was a rather forthright response.

I was aware of the Express Air Services Herald STN-JEY flights during 1980 but I was under the impression that they were cargo flights operated by EAS themselves.

I stand corrected by the fact they operated on behalf and in cooperation with Jersey European Airways.

So much confusion over this. The EAS flights were not operated on behalf of JEA. They were Intra route licences resulting from the takeover of Intra assets by EAS/Fields Aviation. The only connection between JEA and EAS was the marketing agreement for 1980 only. The EAS flights were listed as JY in the timetable but operated under EAS callsigns. In Jersey JEA flights operated by JEA were handled by Servisair. JEA flights operated by EAS were handled by British Midland. EAS/Fields allocated two Heralds and one ex Intra Viscount to the routes

[Blatter]

Originally Posted by Sotonsean

I believe that it was 1970.

In the spring of 1970, Caledonian Airways won a renewable, one year contract from Qantas to carry migrants from Europe to Australia. The initial contract was worth £4.3 million. It was a sub-charter providing for the carriage of up to 40,000 passengers on approximately 220 flights.

The flights went to several Australian destinations such as Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney. All went via Singapore and a Middle Eastern fuel stop. In the case of the Caledonian Airways Boeing 707 being the first ever commercial airliner to fly non-stop flight from London Gatwick to Singapore. This is indeed the case but I'm sure it only ever occurred if the conditions allowed it and I'm not sure how many occasions it actually happened.

Originally Posted by Mickj3

I seem to remember that it was a BCal 707 that was the first comercial airliner to fly non-stop from UK to Singapore. It would be in 1967 or 1970/1

The record flight took place on 11th/12th April 1971 as it was my father (Les Bruce) who captained the plane. (I've just been researching documents for his eulogy and this forum came up in the search for record flights between London & Singapore) 13hrs 16mins 46secs was the official time on the Diplome de Record.

[WHBM]

These early 1970s "record flights" by 707s of the era were typically positioning flights with no load and thus fuel up to maximum MTOW. Wardair did a comparable one at the time between Honolulu and Gatwick. However such an empty leg eastbound from Gatwick to Singapore seems unlikely when the contract was emigrants to Australia. I believe the emigrant contract also often positioned out elsewhere in Europe to pick up a load - Belgrade and Athens were common points - from where they stood a better chance of making Singapore nonstop.

Did B Cal go right through to Australia, or did Qantas handle things on from Singapore ?

Emigrants from London were also assigned as 'fill in' load on the oddball once-weekly Qantas 707 flight that routed through Bermuda, Mexico City, Tahiti and other points, which was never particularly successful for loads, extremely expensive to operate with the long crew slip durations, and must have made Australia seem a very long way away indeed.

[3greensok]

Great thread but question

Is there anyone out there who worked with the ORIGINAL Caledonian Airways? If so would love to hear your stories!

[Gordomac]

Hundreds, if not more of us out there. Might need a new Thread-start.

My quick input ; School leaver in 1965, joined as Trainee Crewing Assistant. Housed over the cake shop in Horley, assisted in the office move to the Crawley Bowl. Trained by Rock Barton, Selwyn Thomas, Mike Selmes and others. Shot-down, regularly by Tosh Parlane and the Brit Skipper, Cass.

As a wannabee, welcomed on the FD on all days off by Roy Hermes, Maurice Lothian, Stew Calder, Les Goodfellow and many others. When I suggested that they sponsor my pilot training, they gave better advice, Pat Holt just fell about Larfing.

Made it to the sharp-end anyway but by then Cally had become Cally/BUA. Cripes. Got me blubbing already.

[3greensok]

Originally Posted by Gordomac

Hundreds, if not more of us out there. Might need a new Thread-start.
what a great reply, thanks! Now you have me really interested. I thought the original HQ in Harley was above a chip shop, but it was a cake shop. Is that right?


My quick input ; School leaver in 1965, joined as Trainee Crewing Assistant. Housed over the cake shop in Horley, assisted in the office move to the Crawley Bowl. Trained by Rock Barton, Selwyn Thomas, Mike Selmes and others. Shot-down, regularly by Tosh Parlane and the Brit Skipper, Cass.

As a wannabee, welcomed on the FD on all days off by Roy Hermes, Maurice Lothian, Stew Calder, Les Goodfellow and many others. When I suggested that they sponsor my pilot training, they gave better advice, Pat Holt just fell about Larfing.

Made it to the sharp-end anyway but by then Cally had become Cally/BUA. Cripes. Got me blubbing already.

Sorry if this is repeated reply, still getting used to the system. Gordomac, thanks for the info plus you taught me something new. I thought it was a chip shop in Horley, not a cake shop. So you put me right on that. If anyone is interested, I have a 3 page original memo from the original Chairman of Caledonian (not Adam Thomson) which is in today’s terms hilarious regarding expectations of staff…