BEA Vickers Vanguard
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
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DH106, hadn't realised only the C had the bigger fin, only place I've seen 7s on the hoof was Cockroach Corner and I identified the 7s largely by their fins - maybe they were all 7Cs, there weren't many even then nearly 40 years ago. Lots of 6s.
DC4 - rounded windows
DC6 - squared windows, three-bladed props
DC7 - four-bladed props.
PSA in their early years in California, up against United and Western with DC6s, and with passengers savvy to this difference, painted squared window outlines in black paint round their DC4 windows
.
The long-lived Merpati Vanguards were part of a (then) Indonesian government regulation that allowed competitors to Garuda on domestic flights, but not jets, which only Garuda were allowed. It gave a last hurrah for passenger Vanguards and Electras.
The Merchantman conversions had a number of oddball assignments. Taking the female panda Chi-Chi from London to Moscow zoo for a "date" with their male panda An-An (nothing resulted from it) was one such in front of all the media. Returned in an Antonov 12. More interesting but less prominent was they were used on several flights to take the BA-specified and UK-built cabin fittings for the first BA Tristars to the Lockheed assembly plant in Palmdale, California, routing via Montreal and Calgary, ports where Air Canada engineers knew the Vanguard, and likely still had spares in the stores. It was unknown in the USA, where the Electra dominated. If you ever saw the two types side-by-side on the ramp, you realised how much bigger the Vanguard was than the Electra, in all dimensions.
DC6 - squared windows, three-bladed props
DC7 - four-bladed props.
PSA in their early years in California, up against United and Western with DC6s, and with passengers savvy to this difference, painted squared window outlines in black paint round their DC4 windows
.The long-lived Merpati Vanguards were part of a (then) Indonesian government regulation that allowed competitors to Garuda on domestic flights, but not jets, which only Garuda were allowed. It gave a last hurrah for passenger Vanguards and Electras.
The Merchantman conversions had a number of oddball assignments. Taking the female panda Chi-Chi from London to Moscow zoo for a "date" with their male panda An-An (nothing resulted from it) was one such in front of all the media. Returned in an Antonov 12. More interesting but less prominent was they were used on several flights to take the BA-specified and UK-built cabin fittings for the first BA Tristars to the Lockheed assembly plant in Palmdale, California, routing via Montreal and Calgary, ports where Air Canada engineers knew the Vanguard, and likely still had spares in the stores. It was unknown in the USA, where the Electra dominated. If you ever saw the two types side-by-side on the ramp, you realised how much bigger the Vanguard was than the Electra, in all dimensions.
WHBM, I am old enough to have seen the Electra and Vanguard together at LHR and you are so right, the Elkectra wa smore like an oversized Viscount and of course didnt have the deep and wide fuselage of the Vanguard which was still a pretty big aricraft up against 707s and DC8s. The only thin about the Electra that was bigger was the smoke trail
its actually hard to look back and compare .'giant airliners ' from the 50s and 60s to something like a 777. A few years ago I saw a DC 6 at Blackbushe and it didnt dominate its surroundings like I thought . probably no bigger than ATR 72 or similar . Itw as great to see and hear it , perhaps the last time I will ever hear the music of 4 big radials
its actually hard to look back and compare .'giant airliners ' from the 50s and 60s to something like a 777. A few years ago I saw a DC 6 at Blackbushe and it didnt dominate its surroundings like I thought . probably no bigger than ATR 72 or similar . Itw as great to see and hear it , perhaps the last time I will ever hear the music of 4 big radials
Re. the Electra skoke.
We were doing training in the circuit at Birmingham one clear, still, winter's day and you could see the smoke hanging in the sky where the previous circuit had been. After about 5 or 6 circuits the whole sky had a hint of brown about it.
I wonder what Greta would say?
We were doing training in the circuit at Birmingham one clear, still, winter's day and you could see the smoke hanging in the sky where the previous circuit had been. After about 5 or 6 circuits the whole sky had a hint of brown about it.
I wonder what Greta would say?
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,611
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"How dare you!"
Re Indonesian Vanguards, Alexander Frater recounts a trip on a "Super Viscount" during his Beyond the Blue Horizon odyssey - I assumed it was a Mandala Electra from the description, but it's been a while since I read it and no idea where my copy is. Anybody got a firm idea of what he did fly on - I vaguely recall him saying it had radials but I'm sure he or I have got that wrong? Can't even recall the airline...
Re Indonesian Vanguards, Alexander Frater recounts a trip on a "Super Viscount" during his Beyond the Blue Horizon odyssey - I assumed it was a Mandala Electra from the description, but it's been a while since I read it and no idea where my copy is. Anybody got a firm idea of what he did fly on - I vaguely recall him saying it had radials but I'm sure he or I have got that wrong? Can't even recall the airline...
Re Indonesian Vanguards, Alexander Frater recounts a trip on a "Super Viscount" during his Beyond the Blue Horizon odyssey - I assumed it was a Mandala Electra from the description, but it's been a while since I read it and no idea where my copy is. Anybody got a firm idea of what he did fly on - I vaguely recall him saying it had radials but I'm sure he or I have got that wrong? Can't even recall the airline...
It's one of my favourite books, and he is excused the odd technical lapse
.There was a long Propliner account back in the late 1980s by someone who went to Indonesia and rode on all of the Viscount, Vanguard and Electra, the latter a lengthy all day trip the length of the country via intermediate stops.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Frater didn't fly on it, but had a look around. It was Mandala. "Its four engines looked like antique air-cooled radials, and even the three-bladed propellers had been burnished...What was it? A converted Flying Fortress? A restyled Lanc? Or something built locally from bamboo and hammered Capstan cigarette tins? I tried to find out."
"I approached the marshal "Viscount" he snapped. "That's no Viscount". "It's a Super Viscount""
My guess? Most likely an Electra.
I only found this because I've recently read the book, and knew where to find the bits.
"I approached the marshal "Viscount" he snapped. "That's no Viscount". "It's a Super Viscount""
My guess? Most likely an Electra.
I only found this because I've recently read the book, and knew where to find the bits.
Haraka, thanks, makes sense. Did many aircraft prototypes have special safety arrangements, like this anti spin paracgute, or the tail rockets on the Fokker 100 for deep stall trials? I rember it also had a belly slide to evacuate if need be.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,611
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Thanks for the info about the Super Viscount, chaps! I must search the book out and read again, one of my favourites also.
Washoutt, I think the prototype Concordes had a crew escape hatch to make simplify bail out in an irrecoverable situation, not found in the production aircraft.
I've seen quite a few pics of light aircraft with anti-spin 'chutes fitted over the years, presumably while exploring low speed or aerobatic handling,
Washoutt, I think the prototype Concordes had a crew escape hatch to make simplify bail out in an irrecoverable situation, not found in the production aircraft.
I've seen quite a few pics of light aircraft with anti-spin 'chutes fitted over the years, presumably while exploring low speed or aerobatic handling,
OK, I'll repeat the old joke about the Accountant,
Originally the plan was to have three prototypes.
The Accountant
The Auditor
and
The Receiver
Despite the howls and denials, the word in the industry put the Avro 748 very much in the frame as greatly benefitting from what was learned.the hard way by Aviation Traders.
Originally the plan was to have three prototypes.
The Accountant
The Auditor
and
The Receiver
Despite the howls and denials, the word in the industry put the Avro 748 very much in the frame as greatly benefitting from what was learned.the hard way by Aviation Traders.
Little did I know the Grumman Gulfstream had arrived in the country.
