Mystery Argosy
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver
All this time from my #30 and nobody has pulled me up on my story about being stuck in Nairobi after an Argosy flight in 1960; which was two years before they first flew. I was stuck in Nairobi when first joining for different reasons.
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Elsewhere on this thread there is a link to the ex-RAF Argosy that ended up on the Zaire (9Q) register.
Whilst unloading freight at Lubumbashi in around June '79, I went on board - the crew offered a brew, facilitated (if memory serves correctly) by starting up the aeroplane's APU.
It certainly had a fixed nose and I seem to recall glass panels below the nose. There to allow map-reading for the Nav? spotting the drop zone for the loadmaster/troop despatcher? Someone here will know for sure!
I have a feeling the aeroplane was U/S, damaged in a hard landing. I don't think it flew again.
BSD.
ps - it could have been Goma instead of Lubumbashi and maybe we were uplifting, not unloading freight (Cobalt?) Alas, memory fading.
Whilst unloading freight at Lubumbashi in around June '79, I went on board - the crew offered a brew, facilitated (if memory serves correctly) by starting up the aeroplane's APU.
It certainly had a fixed nose and I seem to recall glass panels below the nose. There to allow map-reading for the Nav? spotting the drop zone for the loadmaster/troop despatcher? Someone here will know for sure!
I have a feeling the aeroplane was U/S, damaged in a hard landing. I don't think it flew again.
BSD.
ps - it could have been Goma instead of Lubumbashi and maybe we were uplifting, not unloading freight (Cobalt?) Alas, memory fading.
Gnome de PPRuNe
There were two OTRAG Argosies, 9Q-COA and COE. I think you are right that one was damaged, the other I recall languishing at East Midlands in 1881 where I think it was scrapped. As I recall they were supporting some sort of space programme?
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Back about 1976 I did a temporary radio fit on an ex RAF Argosy for a ferry flight from Hurn to Manila. Phillipine Airlines had bought it to ferry RB211 engines for their Tristars. The RAF had removed all radio kit except one VHF com when they sold it to Shackleton Aviation.
We did a test flight with two Aussie pilots, (paid cash in hand), who were flying civil Argosies for Air Bridge between Hurn and Guernsey. The cockpit layout was very different to what they were used to and they managed to fire all 4 fire bottles during the pre flight checks. We had an ex RAF Air Engineer called Willie to work the panel.
During the flight the boss of Shackleton Aviation decided we should open the cargo doors at the back, so, with the aircraft de-pressurised, down the ladder we went and he opened the upper door and then lowered the ramp to reveal the Dorset countryside about 5000 ft below. No safety harnesses, just holding onto the structure at the side.
I think the flight was totally illegal as it still had XP450 on the side and won't have been insured.
We did a test flight with two Aussie pilots, (paid cash in hand), who were flying civil Argosies for Air Bridge between Hurn and Guernsey. The cockpit layout was very different to what they were used to and they managed to fire all 4 fire bottles during the pre flight checks. We had an ex RAF Air Engineer called Willie to work the panel.
During the flight the boss of Shackleton Aviation decided we should open the cargo doors at the back, so, with the aircraft de-pressurised, down the ladder we went and he opened the upper door and then lowered the ramp to reveal the Dorset countryside about 5000 ft below. No safety harnesses, just holding onto the structure at the side.
I think the flight was totally illegal as it still had XP450 on the side and won't have been insured.
You've been in this business for quite a long time Treadigraph.... 
XP446, later 9Q-COE, was damaged in a hard landing, the other one was XR136, or 9Q-COA, which was indeed scrapped at East Midlands in 1981 according to this page: AWA ARGOSY
XP446, later 9Q-COE, was damaged in a hard landing, the other one was XR136, or 9Q-COA, which was indeed scrapped at East Midlands in 1981 according to this page: AWA ARGOSY
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Log book checked: it was Lubumbashi, 3rd June '79 most likely and yes, I believe the Argosy was doing some space related research work.
Now tell me, did it have an APU or have I imagined that?
The crew (who may have only been the engineers) were not too impressed with the aeroplane - its lack or range with a decent payload if I recall correctly.
As for the downward looking glass panels in the nose, they may have been useful for map reading. Would there have been a drift sight?
As I recall, nothing worked in Zaire at the time. All VORs, NDBs, etc were either U/S or weren't available - no power. Our flying from/to Kinshasa into Lubumbashi, Kisangani and Goma was map-reading, DR, judicious use of the radar, etc.
Happy days. Sad to think of the poor old Argosy being chopped up there.
Now tell me, did it have an APU or have I imagined that?
The crew (who may have only been the engineers) were not too impressed with the aeroplane - its lack or range with a decent payload if I recall correctly.
As for the downward looking glass panels in the nose, they may have been useful for map reading. Would there have been a drift sight?
As I recall, nothing worked in Zaire at the time. All VORs, NDBs, etc were either U/S or weren't available - no power. Our flying from/to Kinshasa into Lubumbashi, Kisangani and Goma was map-reading, DR, judicious use of the radar, etc.
Happy days. Sad to think of the poor old Argosy being chopped up there.
Originally Posted by BSD
Elsewhere on this thread there is a link to the ex-RAF Argosy that ended up on the Zaire (9Q) register.
Whilst unloading freight at Lubumbashi in around June '79, I went on board - the crew offered a brew, facilitated (if memory serves correctly) by starting up the aeroplane's APU.
It certainly had a fixed nose and I seem to recall glass panels below the nose. There to allow map-reading for the Nav? spotting the drop zone for the loadmaster/troop despatcher? Someone here will know for sure!
I have a feeling the aeroplane was U/S, damaged in a hard landing. I don't think it flew again.
BSD.
ps - it could have been Goma instead of Lubumbashi and maybe we were uplifting, not unloading freight (Cobalt?) Alas, memory fading.
Whilst unloading freight at Lubumbashi in around June '79, I went on board - the crew offered a brew, facilitated (if memory serves correctly) by starting up the aeroplane's APU.
It certainly had a fixed nose and I seem to recall glass panels below the nose. There to allow map-reading for the Nav? spotting the drop zone for the loadmaster/troop despatcher? Someone here will know for sure!
I have a feeling the aeroplane was U/S, damaged in a hard landing. I don't think it flew again.
BSD.
ps - it could have been Goma instead of Lubumbashi and maybe we were uplifting, not unloading freight (Cobalt?) Alas, memory fading.
I've never heard of any nose transparencies on the Argosy, but stranger things have happened.
I've never heard of any nose transparencies on the Argosy, but stranger things have happened.
Dave I am pretty sure that there was a ventral window below the radome, which I always assumed was for para dropping.
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Dave I am pretty sure that there was a ventral window below the radome, which I always assumed was for para dropping.
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The one at Cosford does have a window below the radome:
Last edited by Jhieminga; 30th Jul 2021 at 09:37. Reason: Changed internet-sourced photo for one of my own.
There was a window. I distinctly remember my Dad (267 Squadron) taking my brother and I on some kind of Nav exercise in an Argosy. It was great fun as a lad to watch the world go by from out that window.
Originally Posted by brakedwell
I seem to remember the window below the radome was in a door which we used to use for crew changes with the engines running.
Originally Posted by India Four Two
plus of course, the obvious difference, that the civil Agosy had doors at both ends. I wonder why the RAF didn't want that option.
Last edited by Jhieminga; 30th Jul 2021 at 09:45.
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We never loaded freight through the front door of the RAF Argosy., but as I said before we used to use it to change crews with the engines running during training. I can't remember using it as an entry/exit in Aden, but the window was used a lot by the Navigator when dropping one ton containers up in the Radfan mountains
Originally Posted by Jhieminga
I had to zoom in on my photos but there appears to be a circular hatch just below the window. Probably not meant to be opened in flight...
I'm guessing here but I think that the RAF would mostly be interested in loading large items that were often able to be driven inside using the rear ramp. The front door only starts to make sense when you are working with small packages such as shown on the photo in your post. For those you have to load and unload using a forklift or platform anyway and the front and rear doors will then enable you to speed up the process. The front door also adds complexity and weight, I guess the trade-off ended up in favour of a fixed nose for the RAF variant. I suspect that the rear ramp and wedge-tail affair was already heavier than the civil rear doors anyway.
I'm guessing here but I think that the RAF would mostly be interested in loading large items that were often able to be driven inside using the rear ramp. The front door only starts to make sense when you are working with small packages such as shown on the photo in your post. For those you have to load and unload using a forklift or platform anyway and the front and rear doors will then enable you to speed up the process. The front door also adds complexity and weight, I guess the trade-off ended up in favour of a fixed nose for the RAF variant. I suspect that the rear ramp and wedge-tail affair was already heavier than the civil rear doors anyway.
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There's a long Argosy thread buried somewhere in the archive section. Another reason for the nose being as it was is that there was also a mounting for a bombsight, somebody's bright idea in the design/development stage. It was never used in squadron service, and never bothered me on the many occasions I lay on a board down there, doing the Left/Right run-in chat leading to "Red On .... Green On."
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The front door only starts to make sense when you are working with small packages such as shown on the photo in your post
Also fine for roll on-roll off loading. Back in IPEC days (1 x -101, 2 x -222) we constructed some long flatbed trucks which carried a full complement of pallets - use two trucks, one at either end. As the fresh pallets are loaded on, the old pallets are pushed off. Made for quick turnarounds.
AWA ARGOSY (chota.me.uk) see seventh photo down from the top.
Also fine for roll on-roll off loading. Back in IPEC days (1 x -101, 2 x -222) we constructed some long flatbed trucks which carried a full complement of pallets - use two trucks, one at either end. As the fresh pallets are loaded on, the old pallets are pushed off. Made for quick turnarounds.
AWA ARGOSY (chota.me.uk) see seventh photo down from the top.
