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Holiday jets again - this time, the Boeing 707 and 720

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Holiday jets again - this time, the Boeing 707 and 720

Old 10th Jun 2021, 11:32
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Here's a couple more.

Late July 1982 Sabena leased OO-SJL (707-329C) to American operator Jet24 , who immediately sublease it to Sunrise Airlines (afaik) a UK operator.
It's ferried to STN and operated a charter to Orlando.
And that was pretty much it with Sunrise AL.

BEA Airtours flew various ex BOAC B707-436, but it's recorded that they also leased (briefly) a B707-131 (OO-TED) from TEA of Belgium in 1978

What about Air Arctic Icelandic? Did they ever operate in their own right, or did they just fly for other airlines?
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Old 10th Jun 2021, 11:46
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Originally Posted by washoutt View Post
What is WHBM? There is no google for it.
I am flattered ...
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Old 10th Jun 2021, 13:14
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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BEA Airtours flew various ex BOAC B707-436, but it's recorded that they also leased (briefly) a B707-131 (OO-TED) from TEA of Belgium in 1978
That's jogged a memory cell. I used to see the TEA 707/720's regularly back in the day. Which UK airport did they fly into, STN ? LGW ?
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Old 10th Jun 2021, 13:19
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack View Post
That's jogged a memory cell. I used to see the TEA 707/720's regularly back in the day. Which UK airport did they fly into, STN ? LGW ?
Apart from the Beatours one (of which I was unaware) TEA used to operate mostly adhocs to UK I believe. BHX used to see them on and off operating day trips for visitors to exhibitions at the NEC in the first few years after it opened, and at a time when BHX wasn't exactly well served with scheduled services from much of Europe.

Those NEC charters declined significantly as the likes of Lufthansa, Air France, Sabena and their ilk started operating multi daily services into BHX.
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Old 11th Jun 2021, 13:50
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Quietplease View Post
Longest sector I did with Qantas on the 138 was 8.20 SYD-SIN. Longest on a PWA 138 was beginning of season empty ferry LGW-YVR 9.45.
Longest on a BCAL 320C was LGW - LAX 11.40
On the Qantas fiesta route we would position SYD - PPT -SYD on UTA DC8 which had a proper bar at the front of first class.
No diversions on PPT-ACA, it's very empty across there. Qantas had amazingly good navigators (apart from the chief nav who used to pass up heading chits with half degree alterations. This was the man who was twice so far off track into HNL they were intercepted by the USAF ) this was long before inertial or gps and the loran coverage was not good so astro all the way.
ACA departure both ways was at night. It was a very new airport so they hadn't quite sorted out the runway lighting. There was a cable crossing the runway about a third from the end and that would sometimes break as you crossed it making for an interesting final part of the takeoff.
Once did a triple Tahiti-Mexico shuttle. Two weeks in Tahiti was tough!
Tahiti had only three flights a week UTA Qantas and PanAm out of HNL.

rog747 knows more about the details of the Qantas aircraft than I do although I used to fly them! It was a long time ago.I don't remember the first lounge. There was a crew bunk opposite the first class galley.

Never saw UTA Caravelles in SYD. We did SYD- NOU in the 707, only about 2.20 flight time so always somewhere within an hour.
Fabulous recollections, thank you very much.
I gather QF ended 707-138B operations in 1968 - two of the fleet only 4 years old,
VH-EBH - EBM all being built as a 138B from new.
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Old 12th Jun 2021, 06:31
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Old 12th Jun 2021, 06:51
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As well as Wardair, have Worldways and Ontario World Air had a mention?
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Old 12th Jun 2021, 08:19
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
As well as Wardair, have Worldways and Ontario World Air had a mention?
Yep - and Quebecair, PWA, and Transair who all did 707 charters to the UK and Europe.

From the States there were early 707 charters to LGW by World AW, Pan and TWA.

Saturn Airways had cancelled their 707C orders, but a 707C would remain on option for AFA until they also switched sides and both airlines ordered the DC-8-63 in late 1968.

Airlift International's own 707C was seen occasionally and Executive Jet Aviation's 707C was immediately leased to Airlift International, then returning to Executive Jet.
The following month it was leased to International Air Bahama for a year, then off to Caledonian AW.
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Old 12th Jun 2021, 11:31
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Originally Posted by Quietplease View Post
Never saw UTA Caravelles in SYD. We did SYD- NOU in the 707, only about 2.20 flight time so always somewhere within an hour.
In 1970 for example it did once a week on Sundays Noumea-Sydney and return. On the Saturday it had done Auckland.

Page 5 here :

ut70.pdf (timetableimages.com)

Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack View Post
I hadn't realised that UTA used their Caravelle on such long routes, 2 engines to infinity and beyond! Were these 2 examples the ones that went to Air Afrique by chance ? UTA was a decent enough airline,
Air Afrique bought separately a couple of late-model Caravelles as well, might have even been part of the same order, the two companies were notably intertwined and quite a proportion of the Air Afrique ops and flight deck staff were UTA personnel on secondment, along with loaning of substitute aircraft. Air Afrique heavy maintenance was all done in Paris. There was interlocking minority ownership by UTA (and Air France) in Air Afrique, the same as both had part ownership of French internal airline Air Inter as well. It was very much an "old boys" closed shop, French style, said to be co-ordinated behind the scenes by the longstanding No 1 customer of UTA, the French Foreign Affairs ministry's ex-Colonial department at Quai d'Orsay in Paris.

Last edited by WHBM; 12th Jun 2021 at 11:44.
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Old 12th Jun 2021, 20:19
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I believe this is C-FPWV B707-138B at Gatwick 1978

Gatwick 1979. Foreground Dan-Air's B707-321 G-AYSL operated by British Airtours. Background Air Malta B707-123? G-TJAB.
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Old 12th Jun 2021, 21:22
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G-AYSL. Sierra Lima, or as it was apparently universally known at BA/Airtours, "Spread Legs". An early onetime Pan Am aircraft, Dan-Air got it secondhand in 1971 and ran it themselves, but leased it to BA mainline in 1978 (when they seemed very short of aircraft, and were also using as much spare Airtours capacity on mainline routes as they were able) and to Airtours in 1979. When done at the end of the 1979 season it seems to have languished at Lasham for years, for sale without success, until finally broken up there.

The 707-123B behind it, ex-American Airlines, belonged to Transasian, which despite the name operated from Gatwick, but this was the second summer season it was leased to Air Malta. The following year, 1980, it was with Monarch, but that was its last duty.

The Caravelle in the foreground is, by most amazing coincidence, one of those two UTA Caravelle 10Rs discussed in the post above, which had been sold on in 1972 to Swiss charter operator SATA, later CTA. It did about 15 years with them and was a quite regular Gatwick visitor over the years, particularly on student charters.

May as well do the rest, in the background is a BA One-Eleven, not normally associated with Gatwick, but at the time for a few years they had a couple based there which did a small handful of European destinations in an attempt to stimulate Gatwick scheduled services for BA. Knowing how licensing worked then, it was likely an attempt to prevent B Cal getting such Gatwick routes.
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Old 12th Jun 2021, 22:16
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks WHBM, great information. I was working at Gatwick at the time and took these photos. Funny how what seemed to be routine at the time turns out to br
e great memories for some..
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Old 13th Jun 2021, 05:56
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Air Afrique bought separately a couple of late-model Caravelles as well, might have even been part of the same order, the two companies were notably intertwined and quite a proportion of the Air Afrique ops and flight deck staff were UTA personnel on secondment, along with loaning of substitute aircraft. Air Afrique heavy maintenance was all done in Paris. There was interlocking minority ownership by UTA (and Air France) in Air Afrique, the same as both had part ownership of French internal airline Air Inter as well. It was very much an "old boys" closed shop, French style, said to be co-ordinated behind the scenes by the longstanding No 1 customer of UTA, the French Foreign Affairs ministry's ex-Colonial department at Quai d'Orsay in Paris.
Thanks for that information. Yes, the whole French commercial (airline) aviation industry back then had a very closed circuit feel to it. I flew regularly on just about all the offerings and the cross-pollination of companies was noticeable, all supported with government aid financed by the taxes of the French people (and me at the time). Certainly domestically you could fly to an amazing array of places that today are only available by TGV. As you say, UTA was basically an extension of the French Foreign Affairs ministry. Air France was caught out bugging First Class passengers conversations to gain commercial advantages in the 90's!

G-AYSL. Sierra Lima, or as it was apparently universally known at BA/Airtours, "Spread Legs". An early onetime Pan Am aircraft, Dan-Air got it secondhand in 1971 and ran it themselves, but leased it to BA mainline in 1978 (when they seemed very short of aircraft, and were also using as much spare Airtours capacity on mainline routes as they were able) and to Airtours in 1979. When done at the end of the 1979 season it seems to have languished at Lasham for years, for sale without success, until finally broken up there.
This made me think of the handful of 707/720 aircraft that languished at the Aer Lingus Mx apron in DUB for many years. Does anyone know their story ? I'm assuming that they were scrapped in situ at some point.
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 02:18
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mooncrest View Post
Was there a single pilot type-rating covering all variants of the 707 and 720 ? I'd imagine that there would have been a few configurational and handling differences to be learned.
I would guess that there is just one B707 type rating as I got one from flying the KC-135 which was very different from the B707-320 that I flew later.
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