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BAC 1-11 Holiday Jets

Old 6th Jun 2021, 23:48
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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As the thread is about holiday jets and that's all my only extremely limited experience of them is, I will add just one thing that's irrelevant compared to most previous posts which are more about the aeroplane rather than human cargo.

In cattle-class configuration, at 6' 1" I didn't fit and for that reason alone I hated the things!

I'm far from a regular or even seasoned traveller so I've no idea of which airlines now but I'm pretty sure it was Luton to Gerona and return, and then Luton to Palma and return in late 1973 and then, long after, Gatwick to Nice and back in 1985.

My heart sank when years later I walked out to the apron at Gatwick and saw another 1-11...

Last edited by DHfan; 7th Jun 2021 at 15:14.
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 11:00
  #82 (permalink)  
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Boarding cards ain't what they used to be.....



From either G-AWWZ, LTN-MXP 30.12.81 or G-AXMG, MXP-LTN 06.01.81. My instinct is with the former.

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Old 7th Jun 2021, 11:25
  #83 (permalink)  
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Re the Pacific Express livery.
I was in Hangar 1 at Gatwick the day they painted the name on the side. As the masking tape was removed an american voice beside me asked what I thought of it. I said "quite striking, but when the cabin door is open you can't see the name. Why don't you move the name further back?"
The gent huffed and walked off.Turned out he was the boss of the airline.
I have noticed this on quite a few airline colour schemes over the years. Flybe 146s come to mind.
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 11:39
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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There is good "official" performance information on this website dedicated to the 1-11: http://www.bac1-11jet.co.uk/bac1-11j...ifications.htm
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 13:17
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Originally Posted by dixi188 View Post
The gent huffed and walked off.Turned out he was the boss of the airline.
So what did he know ? The airline didn't even last two years. The aircraft went on to Cascade Airways and Air Wisconsin.
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 13:41
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Re the Pacific Express livery.
I was in Hangar 1 at Gatwick the day they painted the name on the side. As the masking tape was removed an american voice beside me asked what I thought of it. I said "quite striking, but when the cabin door is open you can't see the name. Why don't you move the name further back?"
The gent huffed and walked off.Turned out he was the boss of the airline.
I have noticed this on quite a few airline colour schemes over the years. Flybe 146s come to mind.
This has happened a good few times over the years, a couple with unintended and embarrassing linguistic changes. The design bureaux responsible should have been docked part of their fees on all these cockups. The amount spent by airlines on branding and liveries should include a bit of due diligence by said designers of how the livery would 'sit' on each type within the fleet and including all permutations of normal usage, especially whilst on the ground at the airport.
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 14:02
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A classic one was the new Thomas Cook branding, large graphic across the fuselage, where the placement of cabin windows on narrow bodies breaking up the characters made it look more that it was saying Thomson, their principal competitor.

Carriers in the 1950s found that having the upper fuselage of an aircraft white gave significant benefit to air conditioning loads, which was later forgotten by some (not all) design houses.

BMI got a substantial reprimand in an AAIB report into a near-miss at Heathrow with a lined-up aircraft, where the new matt blue/grey upper fuselage made it much less visible to an approaching lander.
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 14:28
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Though I gained my BAC 1-11, AME licence whilst at BEA, I first got its use in the issue of the same in Nassau Bahamas. Bahamasair had leased A.A. BAC1-11's; it was a real holiday operation with rum punch served to the passengers, but my work was on night shift and as such not a holiday. I then went onto Air Malawi and can especially recall the 1-11 holiday flights to Seychelles, they were already load limited and several times passengers had to be off loaded; I also understood the only available diversion near the Island, was a golf course; the 475 series had the fat main wheels but the nose wheel gravel deflectors had been removed. From there I went to Gulf Air but soon after joining, their 1-11's were replace by B737's which ended my 1-11 career.
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 14:48
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If you had an isolation valve to change in the stub wing, that was your entire night shift gone. The PRV was a doddle in comparison....The brake pedal foot motors were another favourite....
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 16:49
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Well, this seems the thread to assist my quest, over the years have often wondered.

Back in 1991/1992 as a fresher at (Edinburgh) University we had an older black gentleman on our course (in his forties/fifties) and once our paths crossed in the cafeteria/refectory and we had a coffee together - he opened up and told me that he was an ex 1-11 captain, for a Scottish carrier. Later on in life I often wondered whom this carrier was, perhaps at the time he told me but my memory fails me.

Were their any Scottish operators of the 1-11 in the 80's or has my memory failed me again?
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Old 7th Jun 2021, 18:41
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British Caledonian ? Half half ;-)
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Old 8th Jun 2021, 22:35
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Could that Scottish 1-11 carrier have been Loganair ?
They leased G-AZUK for 5 months in 1989.
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Old 9th Jun 2021, 07:51
  #93 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Wee Clink View Post
Could that Scottish 1-11 carrier have been Loganair ?
They leased G-AZUK for 5 months in 1989.
I think it was Air Ecosse
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Old 9th Jun 2021, 09:42
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Originally Posted by PV1 View Post
I think it was Air Ecosse
No chance. The largest aircraft used by them were two leased heralds in 1978
Air UK did lease 2 1-11s from BIA for a period in the eighties based at ABZ and GLA until replaced by new 146s
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Old 9th Jun 2021, 10:08
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EuroScot Express had G-AVMT
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Old 9th Jun 2021, 10:10
  #96 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bean View Post
No chance. The largest aircraft used by them were two leased heralds in 1978
Air UK did lease 2 1-11s from BIA for a period in the eighties based at ABZ and GLA until replaced by new 146s
If you go to jet photos and search for Air Ecosse they have a BIA 1-11 with Air Ecosse markings. It was a wet lease of G-AXMU. In fact the Air UK operation was to replace the F28ís which had been sold and they needed to replace the capacity until the following season. The 146ís came much later.

Last edited by PV1; 9th Jun 2021 at 10:26.
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Old 9th Jun 2021, 10:41
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
EuroScot Express had G-AVMT
Euroscot did indeed, like a good range of other carriers in the late 1990s, lease a One-Eleven from European Aviation of Bournemouth for a year, but it was flown by European crews. And despite its name, Euroscot was also based in Bournemouth, so unlikely to qualify as a Scottish carrier.
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Old 9th Jun 2021, 11:13
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Originally Posted by PV1 View Post
If you go to jet photos and search for Air Ecosse they have a BIA 1-11 with Air Ecosse markings. It was a wet lease of G-AXMU. In fact the Air UK operation was to replace the F28ís which had been sold and they needed to replace the capacity until the following season. The 146ís came much later.
incorrect
The Air Anglia F28s which were woefully unprofitable, were disposed of on lease to TAT in july 1980 They never came back. Air UK went into survival mode in 1980 and contracted instead of expanding.
They tentatively re entered jet operations with 1 f28 1000 leased from Fokker to do the ABZ AMS route on 1983.
Circa 1985 they dry leases a 1-11 from BIA to run GLA-AMS via NCL. The Fokker was replaced by a second BIA 1-11. The 146s on these routes came along in 1988
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Old 9th Jun 2021, 11:14
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Originally Posted by PV1 View Post
If you go to jet photos and search for Air Ecosse they have a BIA 1-11 with Air Ecosse markings. It was a wet lease of G-AXMU. In fact the Air UK operation was to replace the F28ís which had been sold and they needed to replace the capacity until the following season. The 146ís came much later.
incorrect
The Air Anglia F28s which were woefully unprofitable, were disposed of on lease to TAT in july 1980 They never came back. Air UK went into survival mode in 1980 and contracted instead of expanding.
They tentatively re entered jet operations with 1 f28 1000 leased from Fokker to do the ABZ AMS route on 1983.
Circa 1985 they dry leases a 1-11 from BIA to run GLA-AMS via NCL. The Fokker was replaced by a second BIA 1-11. The 146s on these routes came along in 1988

Last edited by bean; 9th Jun 2021 at 12:17.
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Old 9th Jun 2021, 11:35
  #100 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bean View Post
incorrect
The Air Anglia F28s which were woefully unprofitable, were disposed of on lease to TAT in july 1980 They never came back. Air UK went into survival mode in 1980 and contracted instead of expanding.
They tentatively re entered jet operations with 1 f28 1000 leased from Fokker to do the ABZ AMS route on 1983.
Circa 1985 they dry leases a 1-11 from BIA to run GLA-AMS via NCL. The Fokker was replaced by a second BIA 1-11. The 146s on these routes came along in 1988
Do you still suggest Air Ecosse did not use a 1-11?
I think you will find that Air UK did not have the 1-11 on their AOC by 1985 so could not have dry leased them. They certainly had them on their AOC in 1980/81as Air UK was formed by the merger of BIA and Air Anglia and it was then that they replaced the F28 which were initially leased to TAT and subsequently sold. The ABZ Schedules were timetabled and had bookings so the 1-11ís were used until the next timetable change as the F28ís were released to TAT before the end of the season. Subsequently F27ís were reinstated on the routes as the load factors never justified the larger capacity aeroplanes
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