Douglas DC-8 Website
Interesting. I did a CAA airtest on an IAS DC 8 in the late seventies with a CAA test pilot in the RHS. One of the exercises was a high altitude high speed run, which involved a steepish descent from around FL 350. I remember reaching just over .93 mach, which covered the airtest, but could have been increased if we had wanted or needed to.
Another great resource for DC-8 stuff as well as other old aircraft. ***edit the link doesnt want to work... copy and paste this is your browser. http://flight-engineers-air-nz.b l o g s p o t.com/p/dc-8-memories.html (delete the spaces)
http://flight-engineers-air-nz.*****...-memories.html
http://flight-engineers-air-nz.*****...-memories.html
UK pax DC-8?
I had forgotten that Lloyd Intl had ordered 3 DC-8 63PF's (but it was 50 years ago lol)
No other UK airlines operated passenger DC-8 aircraft, but both Court Line and British Midland were reported as mooting the -63 series.
BMA would have replaced the 3 707C's had they got any LHR-USA licences (which they never got) At the same time MDD were wooing BMA with the DC-9 Super 80.
The BMA DC-8's would have been second-hand and may have been re-engined types but I cannot recall.
Court Line, I assume they went firm with the Tristar.
In the 1970's and 80's many UK pax flew on DC-8 holiday charter fights to the Med, but with Aviaco, Spantax, Air Spain, TAE, and CTA Canafrica Transportes Aereos, and for the Transatlantic's from the early Affinity Group charter days in the 1960's flew DC-8's of CP Air, International Air Bahama, Loftleidir Icelandic, ONA, Saturn, Universal, TIA, AFA, World, and Capitol (maybe Airlift too)
Both Saber Air and African Safari flew UK charter pax from LGW.
Later on a few other Canadian Airlines flew DC-8's in to the UK on charters, and in the early 1990's Irish airline Translift flew some IT's from UK airports to the Med and MCO with their DC-8 71's for a couple of seasons.
Re Lloyds DC-8 order -
From Flight International in 1969
Its present fleet of two Britannia 312s are leased from Lloyd International Airways (Hong Kong) Ltd, and it has also a DC-4 which is sub-leased to another carrier. The Hong Kong company has on order two DC-8-63Fs which will be leased to Lloyd International on delivery (August 1968 and May 1969 respectively). The two Britannia's are maintained by Aviation Traders (Engineering) Ltd under a contract effective until 1972.
its 1968 transatlantic passenger charter operations account for 70% from charter operations.
But Lloyd was refused a British licence to operate these services. Base is London (Stansted) Airport.
New orders made 1968 -
G- DC‑8‑63CF 46062 05/08/1969 Lloyd Int'l AW -- Acquisition cancelled To (Airlift International N6163A)
G- DC‑8‑63CF 46061 03/07/1969 Lloyd Int'l AW -- Acquisition cancelled To (Airlift International N6162A)
G- DC‑8‑63CF 45969 20/08/1968 Lloyd Int'l AW -- Acquisition cancelled To (Airlift International N6161A)
Lloyd went on to acquire 3 707's from 1970.
G-AYAG B.707‑321 18085 built 07/06/1961 Lloyd Int'l AW ex N759PA Pan Am
G-AYRZ B.707‑321 18084 built 18/05/1961 Lloyd Int'l AW ex N758PA Pan Am
G-AZJM B.707‑324C 18886 built 11/06/1965 Lloyd Int'l AW ex N17323 Continental AL To British Caledonian
No other UK airlines operated passenger DC-8 aircraft, but both Court Line and British Midland were reported as mooting the -63 series.
BMA would have replaced the 3 707C's had they got any LHR-USA licences (which they never got) At the same time MDD were wooing BMA with the DC-9 Super 80.
The BMA DC-8's would have been second-hand and may have been re-engined types but I cannot recall.
Court Line, I assume they went firm with the Tristar.
In the 1970's and 80's many UK pax flew on DC-8 holiday charter fights to the Med, but with Aviaco, Spantax, Air Spain, TAE, and CTA Canafrica Transportes Aereos, and for the Transatlantic's from the early Affinity Group charter days in the 1960's flew DC-8's of CP Air, International Air Bahama, Loftleidir Icelandic, ONA, Saturn, Universal, TIA, AFA, World, and Capitol (maybe Airlift too)
Both Saber Air and African Safari flew UK charter pax from LGW.
Later on a few other Canadian Airlines flew DC-8's in to the UK on charters, and in the early 1990's Irish airline Translift flew some IT's from UK airports to the Med and MCO with their DC-8 71's for a couple of seasons.
Re Lloyds DC-8 order -
From Flight International in 1969
Its present fleet of two Britannia 312s are leased from Lloyd International Airways (Hong Kong) Ltd, and it has also a DC-4 which is sub-leased to another carrier. The Hong Kong company has on order two DC-8-63Fs which will be leased to Lloyd International on delivery (August 1968 and May 1969 respectively). The two Britannia's are maintained by Aviation Traders (Engineering) Ltd under a contract effective until 1972.
its 1968 transatlantic passenger charter operations account for 70% from charter operations.
But Lloyd was refused a British licence to operate these services. Base is London (Stansted) Airport.
New orders made 1968 -
G- DC‑8‑63CF 46062 05/08/1969 Lloyd Int'l AW -- Acquisition cancelled To (Airlift International N6163A)
G- DC‑8‑63CF 46061 03/07/1969 Lloyd Int'l AW -- Acquisition cancelled To (Airlift International N6162A)
G- DC‑8‑63CF 45969 20/08/1968 Lloyd Int'l AW -- Acquisition cancelled To (Airlift International N6161A)
Lloyd went on to acquire 3 707's from 1970.
G-AYAG B.707‑321 18085 built 07/06/1961 Lloyd Int'l AW ex N759PA Pan Am
G-AYRZ B.707‑321 18084 built 18/05/1961 Lloyd Int'l AW ex N758PA Pan Am
G-AZJM B.707‑324C 18886 built 11/06/1965 Lloyd Int'l AW ex N17323 Continental AL To British Caledonian
Here is a photo of one of the IAS DC8's doing a flypast at Blackbushe in the late seventies. Regarding speedbrakes, I found it strange initially that there were none, and using the inboard engine reversers seemed strange/wrong. In four years on the DC8 I don’t think I used this system more than two or three times.
Last edited by brakedwell; 1st Apr 2021 at 17:41.
In four years on the DC8 I don’t think I used this system more than two or three times
I had a long history of maintaining DC-8. First were Alitalia DC-8-40s at KIDL/KJFK. Then Iberia and Traans Carib DC-8-50's. I even got to work N808, the prototype which had been upgraded to a series 50. It was flying for a charter outfit and I was called out for a hydraulic leak. Dropped gear doors and went up into LH wheelwell. The hydraulic tank and plumbing were not like any DC-8 I had ever seen. Looked again at N number and the light came on.
Going to EAL there were model 21 and 51. It was there, as a Tech Managers I got to fly a DC-8-21 for a few minutes. We were on a test flight halfway to Bermuda with clear airspace. The aircraft was reported to have poor lateral control. We did a few dives and pull-outs with rolls. EAL Engineering Flight Crew, the Captain said, "Let him fly it."
So I did in the F/O seat and there was no reaction to wheel for first 10 degrees each way. Went back into the cabin and looked out, both ailerons were up about three inches with control wheel neutral. Not good. On ground, found lower leg cracked on reversion mechanism fastening it to rear spar completely cracked through on both sides.Turned out, ancient AD required that these mountings be replaced but somehow, these had not been.
Went on to -61 models, earliest of which had considerable wiring glitches. Then my favorite, model, the -63. I wrote about a Rapid Descent into Albuquerque in Airways mag way back. That descent impressed even the Colonel flying Air Force One behind us.
The on to Orion Air (USA) who operated and maintained UPS's model 70's. Those were a real performance gamechanger but the CFM residual thrust made them hard to slow down resulting in a lot more in-flight thrust reversal. Those were hard on the flaps. The DC-8 really could have used a set of speed brakes.
In all, having worked it, gone to Douglas school in Long Beach, taught it as an instructor and troubleshot and managed maintenance on them, I have to say they were my favorite aircraft in my 50 odd year career.
Going to EAL there were model 21 and 51. It was there, as a Tech Managers I got to fly a DC-8-21 for a few minutes. We were on a test flight halfway to Bermuda with clear airspace. The aircraft was reported to have poor lateral control. We did a few dives and pull-outs with rolls. EAL Engineering Flight Crew, the Captain said, "Let him fly it."
So I did in the F/O seat and there was no reaction to wheel for first 10 degrees each way. Went back into the cabin and looked out, both ailerons were up about three inches with control wheel neutral. Not good. On ground, found lower leg cracked on reversion mechanism fastening it to rear spar completely cracked through on both sides.Turned out, ancient AD required that these mountings be replaced but somehow, these had not been.
Went on to -61 models, earliest of which had considerable wiring glitches. Then my favorite, model, the -63. I wrote about a Rapid Descent into Albuquerque in Airways mag way back. That descent impressed even the Colonel flying Air Force One behind us.
The on to Orion Air (USA) who operated and maintained UPS's model 70's. Those were a real performance gamechanger but the CFM residual thrust made them hard to slow down resulting in a lot more in-flight thrust reversal. Those were hard on the flaps. The DC-8 really could have used a set of speed brakes.
In all, having worked it, gone to Douglas school in Long Beach, taught it as an instructor and troubleshot and managed maintenance on them, I have to say they were my favorite aircraft in my 50 odd year career.
Last edited by tonytales; 5th Apr 2021 at 23:09.
Those DC-8s of US charter ("supplemental") carriers came a notable way. In the mid 1960s the US military placed substantial contracts for charter capacity to Vietnam, the chosen aircraft was the 707-320C and the three selected operators were Pan Am, Braniff and Continental, all three of whom placed significant orders with Boeing beyond their existing scheduled needs. By the time they were delivered the DC8-63F had just come along, this was seen as better and as there was a break point in the 707 contracts they were let go, obviously to the carriers' dismay. The work was given to the US charter operators of the era (as named above), all of whom then placed orders with Douglas for short delivery, the sales team did well but production at Long Beach got into a right mess, they subcontracted significant elements out but then didn't know how to manage it, ended up with late delivery, penalties, extra costs, etc, and was a significant element of the McDonnell takeover.
The DC8-63F also got deployed on the, then also extensive, US military charters to Europe, West Germany in particular but also Italy, and some even to Mildenhall. The actual operation was inefficient one-way flights, and the US-based carriers (who were by many accounts pretty close-to-the-knuckle operators anyway) then tried, positioning on to the likes of Gatwick or Amsterdam, for return commercial passenger loads among the Affinity Group lot, a somewhat grey market area who were focused on price, and margin. The military contract had a lot of short term flexibility in it, flights would go a day early or late, be diverted just a week beforehand, etc, and the resulting rearrangements were the cause of these return charter departures being rearranged 12 hours or even two days later. In pre-Internet days some US holidaying tourists and students didn't get to learn of this in time, and would turn up at Gatwick to find chaos and no plans for them. It got into the newspapers, I believe eventually the CAA got involved, and the US operators' business fell off again quite quickly.
WHBM, I remember those days from when I was with IAS Cargo. We (three) travelled on a TIA DC8 63 from Gatwick to Minneapolis among a full load of American passengers. Then we flew up to Winnipeg and then took a DC8, which had come from Gatwick via Dublin, full of race horses (stallions) to Honolulu a couple of days later. Then the next crew flew them to New Zealand. Happy, knackering days!
Obviously not in your contract to do international positioning in F class !
I recall doing London to LAX in the early 1980s on a BA 747. Behind me, in four seats squashed together in Y towards the rear of the aircraft were four pilots in uniform, they were not BA crew but MEA. They inevitably got plied with various inane questions as if they were BA ! I asked slightly more straightforwardly, and found they were on their way to pick up a 707 from a major MRO in Santa Barbara, California, where it had been having the Q modification to its engines installed, to make it compliant with forthcoming regulations. They had come through from Beirut earlier that day, so were indeed somewhat knackered by the time they presented themselves at the transit desk at LAX on arrival for the ongoing connecting hop up the coast.
I recall doing London to LAX in the early 1980s on a BA 747. Behind me, in four seats squashed together in Y towards the rear of the aircraft were four pilots in uniform, they were not BA crew but MEA. They inevitably got plied with various inane questions as if they were BA ! I asked slightly more straightforwardly, and found they were on their way to pick up a 707 from a major MRO in Santa Barbara, California, where it had been having the Q modification to its engines installed, to make it compliant with forthcoming regulations. They had come through from Beirut earlier that day, so were indeed somewhat knackered by the time they presented themselves at the transit desk at LAX on arrival for the ongoing connecting hop up the coast.
WHBM, our arrival in Honolulu turned into a bit of a drama! We just managed to take off from Winnipeg before it closed at 2300, but when it opened the following morning they found wheel and tyre wreckage on the runway. Shortly before our top of descent into Honolulu we were asked for our tyre and wheel details. After frantic searching through our electronic tech manuals the Flight Engineer found the details, which confirmed the wreckage found at Winnipeg was from a DC8, so we were held while the early morning rush of inbounds from the USA landed. Our landing felt very smooth until we slowed down, then the graunching started. Qantas towed us to the terminal, but the outbound crew were not allowed to visit the aircraft, so the Flight Engineer and both pilots fitted two new rear mainwheels, assisted by Qantas. It appeared we had lost one rear main wheel off the port side, later confirmed by Winnipeg, parts of the broken wheel had hit the adjacent rear wheel and destroyed the tyre. Then we went downtown to the hotel around lunchtime. After a few beers, and a couple of hours sleep we flew to Los Angeles in a United 747, first class with only 6 or 7 deadheading United 747 Cabin Crew as the other pax in the downstairs front cabin.They took us out for a few drinks in Reina del Mar, LA before we left on BA, totally knackered.
Last edited by brakedwell; 8th Apr 2021 at 10:21.
