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Can anyone remember this accident?

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Can anyone remember this accident?

Old 30th Sep 2020, 23:12
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Can anyone remember this accident?

I wonder if anyone can remind me of the details of this accident. A HS125 (that's what my memory says it was) got airbourne from Stansted (or Luton?) with a faulty ADI, climbed to 12000', rolled on its back and crashed.. I think it was in the late 70's or early 80's and I'm not getting confused with the Korean 747 which did similar, some years later. Thanks.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 07:47
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I'm not aware of any accident fitting that description.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 08:08
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Me neither, certainly not in that time frame. There was a C421 or similar that crashed out of Stansted while doing an air test but I can't recall any more than that other than roughly that period I should think.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 08:28
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There was 125 that went off of Luton Runway in the 60's down in to Vauxhalls ( at the bottom of the hill) IIRC.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 08:35
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
Me neither, certainly not in that time frame. There was a C421 or similar that crashed out of Stansted while doing an air test but I can't recall any more than that other than roughly that period I should think.
Engine failure during go-around and pilot failed to feather the prop. So circumstances totally different from the OP's scenario.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 10:15
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The 125 at Luton was owned by Beechams, and operated by Autair and was crew training on the 23rd December.

I believe they were doing a practice engine failure but somehow both engines ended up at idle and it then crashed into Vauxhalls.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 12:49
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Wasn't there a Bandeirante did something similar (single crew?) back in the 70/80's
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 13:02
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Nothing that matches exactly.

As well as the 125 at Luton mentioned above there was another 125 that crashed at EDI 20/7/70 (crew training EFATO wrong rudder).
A Jetstream 31 at PIK 6/10/92 (crew training EFATO late/wrong rudder).
A Bandeirante out of LBA 24/5/95 which did have an ADI failure. AAIB report

Edit to add a Beech 200 from SEN 12/9/87 (possible engine issue).

Last edited by Flap40; 1st Oct 2020 at 13:37.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 18:50
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Just wondering if you have mis-remembered the circumstances in some way, something I find I do with increasing ease...

eg: Around 1980 a PA-31 owned by Lotus crashed after a loss of control while apparently doing aerobatics - it was being ferried back to Hethel after maintenance at Stapleford Tawney. It broke up. Right sort of timeframe, exec aircraft...

I did go through an HS-125 production list and didn't spot anything relevant - though there do appear to be an astonishing number of 40+ year old 125s still current in the US.... Or more likely the list I looked at is somewhat out of date!

Last edited by treadigraph; 1st Oct 2020 at 19:02.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 19:11
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Thanks everyone, so obviously not a 125, but I'm still clinging to the idea that it was SE England and ADI failure on the way up to 12 000' still sticks in my mind.

Speaking of old 125's remaining in service, I can remember reading in Flight about 30 years ago that early 125's had the potential to remain in service beyond 100 years old!
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 19:29
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Originally Posted by ZeBedie View Post
Speaking of old 125's remaining in service, I can remember reading in Flight about 30 years ago that early 125's had the potential to remain in service beyond 100 years old!
I'd be surprised. I worked on the RAF Dominies in the 80s and I reckon they did well to last just over 40 years. I'm sure there are finite lives in terms of Fatigue Index and Pressurisation cycles but I forget what they are. Otherwise, I'd guess that it is corrosion which would usually be the problem, and if you want you can carry on replacing bits after it ceases to be cost effective!
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 20:17
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The DH/HS/BAe125 seems to be a favourite with drug runners.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 20:57
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The 125 was a tough bird. I can remember seeing photos on the Chester Broughton production line In the nineties of a 125 flying over Africa that had one engine shot out by local warriors. Despite Extensive damage the crew managed amazingly to keep it airborne until reaching friendly territory. No doubt another knowledgeable source can fill in the details as to why it was shot up.
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Old 1st Oct 2020, 21:19
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I read about this accident and had the same problem with the ADI. ADI showed slowly a wrong attitude without warning flags. I was alerted and could fly disregarding the wrong indication. I was flying a Citation II. Accident was before 1984 as I stopped flying Citations in 1984. I cant remember thy Typ of the accident aircraft.
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 03:47
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Gbflyer, the details.
A BAe-125 owned by the Botswana Government was carrying the President of Botswana, J.K. Quett Masire, and his staff to a meeting in Luanda. An Angolan MiG-23 Flogger pilot fired two R-60 (AA-8 Aphid) missiles at the plane. One missile hit the no. 2 engine, causing it to fall off the aircraft. The second missile then hit the falling engine. The captain of the business jet was incapacitated when the cabin steward was blown forward, onto him. The co-pilot made a successful emergency landing on a bush strip at Cutio Bie.
https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=19880807-0
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 07:42
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Originally Posted by Gbflyer View Post
The 125 was a tough bird......
But not when a bird strike takes out both engines (G-BCUX).
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 08:11
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
Worth mentioning that the co-pilot in question was BAe training captain and demonstration pilot Arthur Ricketts. His account is here: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/that...t-of-botswana/
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 08:52
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Originally Posted by fauteuil volant View Post
But not when a bird strike takes out both engines (G-BCUX).
Even in that accident it would be reasonable to describe the 125 as a "tough bird". The aircraft remained substantially intact after overrunning the runway, crossing a ditch which tore the gear off and hitting a passing car and some concrete posts before coming to rest.

All 9 occupants escaped, 8 without any injury, although tragically all six occupants of the car that was hit perished.
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 14:16
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Whilst not a 125 (Westwind) not at Luton (Sydney, Kingsford-Smith) and well below 12,000' the only executive jet, ADI related accident I can recall was the Pel-air crash.

Most unlikely to be the one you are trying to recall, the accident report (discussed in past years on PPRuNe) makes for very sobering reading.

It was most likely caused by a reckless and ridiculous act, that began to align the "Swiss cheese slices" leading to tragic and needless loss of life.

The Westwind, which originated if I'm not mistaken from a Ted Smith design was, like the 125, one tough old bird. Not tough enough though for the sort of abuse it got in this case.

If today's pilots read this report they will no doubt give thanks that a) such practices are long gone and b) extensive use is made of very impressive simulators.

Best wishes to all,

BSD.
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 14:21
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The pilot of the G-BCUX accident at Dunsfold was also the pilot of another 125 that landed wheels-up at Luton. No injuries and relatively minor damage to the aircraft.
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