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Can anyone remember this accident?

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Can anyone remember this accident?

Old 2nd Oct 2020, 13:53
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John Cunningham was at the controls of G-BCUX on 20 November 1975.
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 14:26
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Even in that accident it would be reasonable to describe the 125 as a "tough bird". The aircraft remained substantially intact after overrunning the runway, crossing a ditch which tore the gear off and hitting a passing car and some concrete posts before coming to rest.

All 9 occupants escaped, 8 without any injury, although tragically all six occupants of the car that was hit perished.
Am I mistaken, but weren't the occupants tragically killed in the car one of the crew's wife and kids on their way to the airfield "to see dad flying" ?
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 15:05
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It was a fellow HSA test pilot's family as I recall on their way home from school. My recollection is John was visiting from Hatfield? A very sad accident.

My school was close by (my first term there) and it was a "current events" topic covered by our housemaster who was also head of history. Think Graham Hill's crash happened shortly afterwards.
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 17:59
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I can recall reading of an incident, I am quite sure it was a Citation in England around the years you speak of, flown single pilot, which had a very slow to erect LHS attitude indicator.
The pilot rushed the departure and allegedly took off utilising the RHS attitude indicator whilst flying from the left seat. Clearly knowing these facts imply it was not a fatal accident, but it must have become some form of serious incident which he managed to recover from, with a subsequent investigation, otherwise no one would have known!

Could this be what you remember?
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 19:33
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Vis vis the G-BCUX incident, it was the wife and two daughters of Leslie 'Dick' Whittington (who was involved in the test flight programme of the Folland Midge/Gnat) who, along with three other pupils of St. Catherine's School, Bramley, died when the car in which they were travelling was hit when the H.S.125 slid across the A281 Horsham to Guildford road. Apparently he was in the tower when the accident occurred but wasn't, unsurprisingly, aware of who was involved - until later.
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Old 2nd Oct 2020, 20:28
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Originally Posted by bingofuel View Post
I can recall reading of an incident, I am quite sure it was a Citation in England around the years you speak of, flown single pilot, which had a very slow to erect LHS attitude indicator.
The pilot rushed the departure and allegedly took off utilising the RHS attitude indicator whilst flying from the left seat. Clearly knowing these facts imply it was not a fatal accident, but it must have become some form of serious incident which he managed to recover from, with a subsequent investigation, otherwise no one would have known!

Could this be what you remember?
Yes and I am inclined to think it was a single pilot operation
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Old 3rd Oct 2020, 10:42
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I was introduced to 'Dick' W via SWMBO and her best friend who were both working at Dunsfold at the time. It was, and is for those remaining, a close community and the scars still remain. I did some domestic computer work for Dick and, unsurprisingly, he was (it seemed to me) 'going through the motions'. Desperately sad.
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Old 3rd Oct 2020, 10:50
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Heartbreaking for such an event to happen, talk about chance......and multiplied many times by the personal connections at both ends of the tragedy.
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Old 3rd Oct 2020, 10:55
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Originally Posted by bingofuel View Post
I can recall reading of an incident, I am quite sure it was a Citation in England around the years you speak of, flown single pilot, which had a very slow to erect LHS attitude indicator.
The pilot rushed the departure and allegedly took off utilising the RHS attitude indicator whilst flying from the left seat. Clearly knowing these facts imply it was not a fatal accident, but it must have become some form of serious incident which he managed to recover from, with a subsequent investigation, otherwise no one would have known!

Could this be what you remember?
Now I'm even more confused. Are we now saying the aircraft in the original post didn't crash, after all?
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Old 3rd Oct 2020, 11:14
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In the incident I recall, the details of what happened would suggest if it crashed the pilot survived to explain what he did.
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Old 3rd Oct 2020, 11:27
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
I was introduced to 'Dick' W via SWMBO and her best friend who were both working at Dunsfold at the time. It was, and is for those remaining, a close community and the scars still remain. I did some domestic computer work for Dick and, unsurprisingly, he was (it seemed to me) 'going through the motions'. Desperately sad.
It appears that he died in 2008.
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Old 3rd Oct 2020, 17:46
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Partenavia P-68 with suspected faulty AH out of East Midlands 1990?


Attached Files
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G-BMCB.pdf (495.1 KB, 27 views)
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Old 3rd Oct 2020, 18:31
  #33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Now I'm even more confused. Are we now saying the aircraft in the original post didn't crash, after all?
Well I thought it did. It's surprising how hard it is to find accident reports going back to the 70's and 80's. Even in this digital age, so much of our history seems to be slipping away.
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Old 4th Oct 2020, 05:09
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I'd be surprised. I worked on the RAF Dominies in the 80s and I reckon they did well to last just over 40 years.
Don't forget that the Dominies spent a lot of their life at low level, an environment not envisaged for the type's operation - but being originally a De Havilland design, it was built strong. Interestingly, the Lear 23/25 and Falcon 20 were both built from fighter designs (The Swiss P16 and Dassault Mystere) and are consequently also tough. And both of these have hard point attachmetns on the wings.
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Old 4th Oct 2020, 07:34
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Originally Posted by ZeBedie View Post
Well I thought it did. It's surprising how hard it is to find accident reports going back to the 70's and 80's. Even in this digital age, so much of our history seems to be slipping away.
A couple of years back, I was in correspondence with the AAIB on this subject. If I remember correctly, I was told that most reports from the eighties onward either had been or were going to be put online and all earlier reports either had been or would be lodged, with the AIB/AAIB files, with the National Archives at Kew. I suspect that the chances of the NA ever putting those online is remote and a personal visit is always going to be the norm for those.
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Old 4th Oct 2020, 09:56
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Originally Posted by fauteuil volant View Post
A couple of years back, I was in correspondence with the AAIB on this subject. If I remember correctly, I was told that most reports from the eighties onward either had been or were going to be put online and all earlier reports either had been or would be lodged, with the AIB/AAIB files, with the National Archives at Kew. I suspect that the chances of the NA ever putting those online is remote and a personal visit is always going to be the norm for those.
That's my understanding, too. The AAIB's own online search is pretty dire, partly because the underlying database is flaky.

Getting back to the original topic, while I enjoy a mystery as much as the next person, this one is changing criteria faster than I can keep up with so I'll leave the search to those with more patience than I have.
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Old 4th Oct 2020, 13:28
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Originally Posted by BSD View Post
Whilst not a 125 (Westwind) not at Luton (Sydney, Kingsford-Smith) and well below 12,000' the only executive jet, ADI related accident I can recall was the Pel-air crash.

Most unlikely to be the one you are trying to recall, the accident report (discussed in past years on PPRuNe) makes for very sobering reading.

It was most likely caused by a reckless and ridiculous act, that began to align the "Swiss cheese slices" leading to tragic and needless loss of life.

The Westwind, which originated if I'm not mistaken from a Ted Smith design was, like the 125, one tough old bird. Not tough enough though for the sort of abuse it got in this case.

If today's pilots read this report they will no doubt give thanks that a) such practices are long gone and b) extensive use is made of very impressive simulators.

Best wishes to all,

BSD.
Yes the 125 is a very tough bird. I remember seeing a newspaper article years ago where a 125 had been hit by a SAM over somewhere in Africa. It blew one engine off but the aircraft remained controllable and flew on to land safely. The photo showed the aircraft on the ground with a engine missing!
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Old 4th Oct 2020, 14:46
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Originally Posted by PaulH1 View Post
I remember seeing a newspaper article years ago where a 125 had been hit by a SAM over somewhere in Africa. It blew one engine off but the aircraft remained controllable and flew on to land safely. The photo showed the aircraft on the ground with a engine missing!
See posts #13 and #15 above.
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Old 4th Oct 2020, 21:46
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I’ve found this report from late 1984 which seems to have the ADI as a possible cause....

https://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/defa...-03/EI-BGL.pdf
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 17:08
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Accident

The incident referred to was an HS125 owned by Beechams and maintained and crewed by Autair
It was Christmas eve and they had be checking out a new co-pilot in the afternoon.
They stopped for waiting for dark(,and a cuppa ) -and aircraft was ready in the evening.
The Training Captain ( Hazlehurst I think not sure !).
Took off when it was dark and were doing the engine failure on takeoff.
The aircraft crashed o to the Vauxhall factory at the end of the runway.
Being Christmas eve the assembly line was not working
With the FDR info the profile was flown on the HS 125 simulator in the USA.
I was concluded that the training captain pulled back one engine and the pupil shut down the other engine.
The end of the assembly line and the end of the building was destroyed - And aircraft !)
Vauxhall pulled in a 24 hour crew ( on Christmas eve !) and they worked round the clock. The line was running when the people returned to work after Christmas
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