Duxford - End of Flying Legends airshows
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
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Total landing length of 21 at OW appears to be about 3000' - 03 is shorter for some reason as the southern extension beyond the estate road that crosses doesn't appear to be useable for landing, but OK for take of I presume.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Surely the answer is to move it all down the road to Stanstead, ample parking at bargain prices. Given the current much reduced levels of airline traffic all those Ryanair flights could be diverted into Duxford for the weekend.
OK the old 737 brake linings will take a bit of a hammering, but mucho cost savings in landing fees at DX compared to STN, sure MOL would be up for it!
OK the old 737 brake linings will take a bit of a hammering, but mucho cost savings in landing fees at DX compared to STN, sure MOL would be up for it!
Such a shame, I love flying into Duxford and Legends is such a fantastic show, Hard to see how it could relocate in UK with so many airfields being closed or restricted. However if it does move to Europe my vote would be for Mollis, a beautiful ex Swiss AF base tucked away in the mountains not far from Zurich, absolutely stunning backdrop and they hold a show called the Zigermeet there every couple of years which usually features good participation from EU warbirds including those from the Red Bull collection.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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The great things about Duxford is the runway length and access to the museum (and facilities).
Flying Legends is a long day - last time I launched at 10:00 to arrive for a 12:00 slot, spent a very hot day on the airfield, launched again at 18:40 arriving back at home airfield at 20:30 and in the pub by 21:15.
if it goes anywhere it has to be at a centrally-located airfield, with massive parking and hangars with interesting aircraft (for when it rains or is too hot)
Duxford is perfect - though a slog from the SW - so I really hope a solution can be found to stay at Duxford.
My favoured alternative would be Fairford or Kemble. Or Newquay
Flying Legends is a long day - last time I launched at 10:00 to arrive for a 12:00 slot, spent a very hot day on the airfield, launched again at 18:40 arriving back at home airfield at 20:30 and in the pub by 21:15.
if it goes anywhere it has to be at a centrally-located airfield, with massive parking and hangars with interesting aircraft (for when it rains or is too hot)
Duxford is perfect - though a slog from the SW - so I really hope a solution can be found to stay at Duxford.
My favoured alternative would be Fairford or Kemble. Or Newquay
Sadly people who make that sort of decision, however obviously inane, are never wrong.
Newquay's too far away from anywhere and everywhere.
Duxford has so much going for it, I have a nasty suspicion that nowhere else is actually feasible, financially and logistically. That's for operators and attendees.
Newquay's too far away from anywhere and everywhere.
Duxford has so much going for it, I have a nasty suspicion that nowhere else is actually feasible, financially and logistically. That's for operators and attendees.
Bit left field, but what about Thorney Island or Lee-on-Solent? Thorney Island a bit better for overwater displays and lots of supporting airfiields e.g. historic Eastleigh, Goodwood, Shoreham, Southampton.
For What it is worth - # 48 & # 50 say it all.
I have attended on three separate occasions, visits to Duxford, amongst many of the other Aviation sites in the UK and the Continent, purely as a 'delighted tourist / enthusiast'....
All the way from OZ.
Paid my 'tourist money' / contributed to the 'Pommy' economy, and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Also enjoyed the other museums / static display aircraft there as well, including, but not limited to, the 'Historic Significance'.of Duxford being Duxford..
It IS the 'Complete Package' !!
VERY Glad I got to go there whilst it was / is there...........
Perhaps 'tis time for some 'cool heads' from the Gummint to step in and give some timely advice - the 'Tourist Pounds' cannot be ignored......
I have attended on three separate occasions, visits to Duxford, amongst many of the other Aviation sites in the UK and the Continent, purely as a 'delighted tourist / enthusiast'....
All the way from OZ.
Paid my 'tourist money' / contributed to the 'Pommy' economy, and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Also enjoyed the other museums / static display aircraft there as well, including, but not limited to, the 'Historic Significance'.of Duxford being Duxford..
It IS the 'Complete Package' !!
VERY Glad I got to go there whilst it was / is there...........
Perhaps 'tis time for some 'cool heads' from the Gummint to step in and give some timely advice - the 'Tourist Pounds' cannot be ignored......
As far as viable and currently serviceable airfields go, Wittering could fit the bill.
Operation: Class G airspace, big currently serviceable runway, and airfield site including ATC. Reasonably centrally places for visiting aircraft. Downside, A1M crosses eastern undershoot.
Public
asy access via A1/A14. Plenty of space for on site parking at the western end. Stamford close by for rail/bus link.
Would RAF allow site use? Dunno.
Operation: Class G airspace, big currently serviceable runway, and airfield site including ATC. Reasonably centrally places for visiting aircraft. Downside, A1M crosses eastern undershoot.
Public
asy access via A1/A14. Plenty of space for on site parking at the western end. Stamford close by for rail/bus link.Would RAF allow site use? Dunno.
Reminding the 'Suits' at Duxford
The Government needs to remind 'The Management Suits' at the IWM that they exist as a National facility to provide a Museum service for the Country (and indeed our Visitors) and that they are lucky that the private sector actually contribute so much in providing the 'Living past' of actual flying machines that is tech challenging and expensive.
We now take it for granted to see large numbers of historic aircraft operating in their element which would not happen if the Warbird movement did not exist.
Museums frequently end up being run to suit the Museum management, and fail to loose sight of what they really are there to do which is provide the public with the opportunity to explore the past in an affordable way, (free in Wales).
The ability to see and hear combat machines in the air is a fantastic experience and indeed a great attraction to overseas visitors, so the IWM need to 'get real' and not throw the baby out with the bath water, and accept that the benefit to 'ALL' is more important than bean counting. Effectively the Government are the paymasters so some cogent words in the right ears are needed to 'prod the suits' back to reality.
Jock Mailtland had it right at Biggin decades ago.
We now take it for granted to see large numbers of historic aircraft operating in their element which would not happen if the Warbird movement did not exist.
Museums frequently end up being run to suit the Museum management, and fail to loose sight of what they really are there to do which is provide the public with the opportunity to explore the past in an affordable way, (free in Wales).
The ability to see and hear combat machines in the air is a fantastic experience and indeed a great attraction to overseas visitors, so the IWM need to 'get real' and not throw the baby out with the bath water, and accept that the benefit to 'ALL' is more important than bean counting. Effectively the Government are the paymasters so some cogent words in the right ears are needed to 'prod the suits' back to reality.
Jock Mailtland had it right at Biggin decades ago.
No 'cool' heads in our current Govt, and they've got other things on their minds at the moment, and frankly, its such a small fry issue, it won't even register at Govt level. Plus the type of people in our Govt currently are very much of the same ilk as the lady curator at IWM, so Govt won't be on 'our' side.
Lee has too much housing around it for a safe display area I would think looking at it on a map in relation to the runway?
I think Sywell or Kemble are the only likely options. Sywell is just close enough to Duxford to be seen to be keeping it local, but I'm still not convinced Sywell is that viable.
Kemble has issues as well with its proximity to Fairford, so TFC would have to look at moving the traditional Legends weekend by several weeks.
RE " It won't even register at Govt level......"
Where is / who is - the Local member..??
IF his / her seat came into question, then he / she = them = Govt..... might be be 'interested' after all...??
Where is / who is - the Local member..??
IF his / her seat came into question, then he / she = them = Govt..... might be be 'interested' after all...??
With the possible exception of Sywell, I can't see that any of the suggestions, however well-meaning, would be financially viable for TFC.
Without exception, they're much too far away from their home base.
Without exception, they're much too far away from their home base.
Political
LOL!
No 'cool' heads in our current Govt, and they've got other things on their minds at the moment, and frankly, its such a small fry issue, it won't even register at Govt level. Plus the type of people in our Govt currently are very much of the same ilk as the lady curator at IWM, so Govt won't be on 'our' side.
No 'cool' heads in our current Govt, and they've got other things on their minds at the moment, and frankly, its such a small fry issue, it won't even register at Govt level. Plus the type of people in our Govt currently are very much of the same ilk as the lady curator at IWM, so Govt won't be on 'our' side.
Nice to see that you are keeping politics out of the thread !!!! Amazing so many people voted for the 'current' Gov, and they secured so many seats must be all of the same 'ILK' as you would say. However I will make a point of speaking to a Minister re the IWM position and try to get some sense into the arena, you may think it is small fry, but Duxford is a very high profile operation and attracts many overseas visitors therefore decisions taken that affect its ability to obtain best value for the UK and the 'product' it could support is very much of Gov interest, and when the CV issue is past we will still be in the UK tourist, and Museum business for which we have a good reputation.. It strikes me that the Legends has become a major attraction therefore every effort should be made to 'ENABLE' its future at its current base. It would be a major Own Goal for Duxford to loose it. They need to get the bean counters a pair of overalls and give them some 'Hangar Jobs' so they see how lucky they are to have such a rich variety of Living History on site. The whole thing beggars belief and needs some heads knocking.
Small fry, or niche audience in their words is what IWM referred to us as, not me.
IWM in their view, are doing exactly what you are talking about doing, and looking to increase visitors and footfall, and increase monies into their pot, as per their statement regarding Legends ending at Duxford.
The point is they clearly don't see Legends as providing that, being such a niche audience in their words, and wanted a bigger slice of the pie from TFC to keep it going, but knowing that TFC probably wouldn't on those terms, thereby giving them that airshow slot back in their own calander to do with as they see fit to do what you are suggesting.
The only way to get the Govt to change its mind is to get articles in the Mail, Telegraph or Express
Would RAF Wyton work? The runway seemed to be in good order when I flew over last week. Road access isn't too bad and the land to the North isn't too developed.so giving a relatively safe "post -Shoreham" area for the display. And it's not too far from Duxford.