Adios, Queen of the Sky!
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Interesting to see that Lufthansa’s A380s are heading out of the door but the 748s seemingly will stay. There’s no question that the 380 is fantastic from a pax perspective but it seems ironic that a simple stretch and re-engine of a 50 year old design won the day against Airbus’ half billion dollar behemoth.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Any lessons from the past?
In the wake of 9/11 (or maybe it was the 08 financial crisis), demand for the 757 was low, and Boeing pulled the plug, only to find there was a huge demand for it once the industry picked up steam again. Airlines have had to get used airplanes. I wonder if they're considering that. Boeing is a business, but my inner child doesn't want to see the 747 go.
With older nose door 747s to be retired this might pretty much change the air cargo industry as we know it. Are those oil and gas guys aware of this?
If you go charter to wild places and for real outsize stuff for sure but not on the main routes.
Hi Less, Yes we are aware, broadly via our regular outsize shippers, that the nose door fleet is starting to wind down. Having said that the amount of tooling that HAS to be shipped as one long length has diminished considerably since the earlier days. Even now, the modern equivalent of the kit we had to use a 124 to fly it to Cape Town is around 60% of the previous linear sizes with a commensurate reduction in dead weight is a major reduction in heartache when you have to ship it to the ar$e-end of nowhere.
The previous shipments we did with the 124 had much less than 25mm height clearance to get into the beast and required us to partially dismantle the kit after functional testing, so that we didn't over stress the floor. with an excessively concentrated load, so it's in everyone's interest if we can get the sizes and weight slimmed down but still do the same job, especially as most of the production sites are far, far away from major airstrips, never mind well-equipped highly international cargo hubs.
The previous shipments we did with the 124 had much less than 25mm height clearance to get into the beast and required us to partially dismantle the kit after functional testing, so that we didn't over stress the floor. with an excessively concentrated load, so it's in everyone's interest if we can get the sizes and weight slimmed down but still do the same job, especially as most of the production sites are far, far away from major airstrips, never mind well-equipped highly international cargo hubs.
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Check the 757 orders and deliveries on wiki. Hardly anyone wanted it pre-9/11 and after that it was show over.
I've posted this before, but it apparently needs repeating:
The 737-900ER is what killed the 757. Aside from some range, the 737-900ER could do pretty much anything the 757-200 could, cost less to operate, and it cost much less to build (and hence Boeing could charge significantly less for it and still make money. The airlines simply did not see enough value in the extra range of the 757 to offset it's much higher price. Boeing tried to save the 757 with the 757-300, but it flopped big time (costing Boeing a big chunk of change in the process).
By the time Boeing pulled the plug on the 757, the production rate had gotten so slow that the factory overhead was a killer. Boeing repurposed the factory space that was producing ~1 757/month into a 737 line cranking out 14 highly profitable aircraft per month.
The 737-900ER is what killed the 757. Aside from some range, the 737-900ER could do pretty much anything the 757-200 could, cost less to operate, and it cost much less to build (and hence Boeing could charge significantly less for it and still make money. The airlines simply did not see enough value in the extra range of the 757 to offset it's much higher price. Boeing tried to save the 757 with the 757-300, but it flopped big time (costing Boeing a big chunk of change in the process).
By the time Boeing pulled the plug on the 757, the production rate had gotten so slow that the factory overhead was a killer. Boeing repurposed the factory space that was producing ~1 757/month into a 737 line cranking out 14 highly profitable aircraft per month.
Lufthansa has been quite innovative with the then new 747: First cargo, first tourist charter use (Condor), contributing quite a bit to the successful 747-400 concept. They even operate the -8.
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In the 1980s Lockheed explored the possibility of a hydrogen powered Tristar but the large tanks required proved a problem.
I always thought hydrogen was the future and the upper deck of the 747 the possible tank solution.
The 747 freighters will be around for many more years and maybe the ideal test aircraft for hydrogen.
Possibly a hybrid with 2 engines on Jet A1 and 2 engines on hydrogen?
I always thought hydrogen was the future and the upper deck of the 747 the possible tank solution.
The 747 freighters will be around for many more years and maybe the ideal test aircraft for hydrogen.
Possibly a hybrid with 2 engines on Jet A1 and 2 engines on hydrogen?
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Nevertheless, I learned that 2 engines are the future and meanwhile I'm convinced.
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1969
In 1969 the first B747 flew...in 1969 men walked on the moon...in 1969 the first Concorde flew...in 1969 I completed my RAF Flying Scholarship and got my PPL.
15,800 hours on the B747 and 1,690 Atlantic crossings later...
In 2020 the B747 is on the scrap heap and so am I...that's progress I suppose.
Happy landings everyone.
15,800 hours on the B747 and 1,690 Atlantic crossings later...
In 2020 the B747 is on the scrap heap and so am I...that's progress I suppose.
Happy landings everyone.
Last edited by B744IRE; 17th Jul 2020 at 08:01.
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In 1969 the first B747 flew...in 1969 men walked on the moon...in 1969 the first Concorde flew...in 1969 I completed my RAF Flying Scholarship and got my PPL. 15,800 hours on the B747 and 1,690 Atlantic crossings later...
In 2020 the B747 is on the scrap heap and so am I...that’s progress I suppose.
Happy landings everyone.
In 2020 the B747 is on the scrap heap and so am I...that’s progress I suppose.
Happy landings everyone.
What's your final opinion about 2 pods replacing 4 pods airliners inside and outside EDTO?
Very sad indeed;
"British Airways has said it will retire all of its Boeing 747s as it suffers from the sharp travel downturn.
The UK airline is the world's largest operator of the jumbo jets, with 31 in the fleet.
"It is with great sadness that we can confirm we are proposing to retire our entire 747 fleet with immediate effect," a BA spokesman told the BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53426886
"British Airways has said it will retire all of its Boeing 747s as it suffers from the sharp travel downturn.
The UK airline is the world's largest operator of the jumbo jets, with 31 in the fleet.
"It is with great sadness that we can confirm we are proposing to retire our entire 747 fleet with immediate effect," a BA spokesman told the BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53426886
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Atlas Air still operate around 45 747s in different variants compared to BAs 31
Last edited by PinOnTheRight; 7th Jan 2021 at 20:05.