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Old 23rd May 2020, 16:14
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Phileas Fogg View Post
Somewhat of a thread drift but I heard that when at an ATM if you enter your pin code in the exact reverse, i.e. you enter 4321 rather than 1234, then this is kind of a hijack code and the ATM shall gobble your card up, does anybody know if this is true or not?
False I'm afraid - see https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/re...pin-atm-alarm/Messages offering a seemingly helpful heads-up about how to deal with a situation in which one is forced to hand over money withdrawn from an ATM under duress began circulating on the Internet in September 2006: However, the word “seemingly” applies in this case because the tip is only a chimera, as entering one’s Personal Identification Number (PIN) in reverse at Automated Teller Machines (ATMs) does not automatically summon the police.

The Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009 compelled the Federal Trade Commission to provide an analysis of any technology, either then currently available or under development, which would allow a distressed ATM user to send an electronic alert to a law enforcement agency. The following statements were made in the FTC’s April 2010 report in response to that requirement:
FTC staff learned that emergency-PIN technologies have never been deployed at any ATMs.
The respondent banks reported that none of their ATMs currently have installed, or have ever had installed, an emergency-PIN system of any sort. The ATM manufacturer Diebold confirms that, to its knowledge, no ATMs have or have had an emergency-PIN system.
Ergo, there aren’t and haven’t ever been “reverse PIN” technologies despite online claims dating to September 2006 that anyone being robbed at an ATM simply had to enter his or her PIN in reverse to summon help.

Moreover, said that FTC report:
The available information suggests that emergency-PIN and alarm button devices: (1) may not halt or deter crimes to any significant extent; (2) may in some instances increase the danger to customers who are targeted by offenders and also lead to some false alarms (although the exact magnitude of these potential effects cannot be determined); and (3) may impose substantial implementation costs, although no formally derived cost estimates of implementing these technologies are currently available.
The reverse PIN system was first imagined in 1994 and patented in 1998 by Joseph Zingher, a Chicago businessman. His SafetyPIN System would alert police that a crime was in progress when a cardholder at an ATM keyed in the reverse of his personal identification numbers. The flip-flopped PIN would serve as a “panic code” that sent a silent alarm to police to notify them that an ATM customer was acting under duress. Because palindromic PINs (e.g., 2002, 7337, 4884) cannot be reversed, Zingher’s system included work-arounds for such numeric combinations.

However, Zingher had little success in interesting the banking community in SafetyPIN despite his pitching it to them with great persistence over the years. He did in 2004 succeed in getting the Illinois General Assembly to adopt a “reverse PIN” clause in SB 562, but the final version of the bill watered down the wording so as to make banks’ implementation of the system optional rather than mandatory: “A terminal operated in this State may be designed and programmed so that when a consumer enters his or her personal identification number in reverse order, the terminal automatically sends an alarm to the local law enforcement agency having jurisdiction over the terminal location.”

In 2006, Michael Boyd pressed the Georgia State Assembly to pass a law requiring banks to create ATM panic codes that would operate the machines normally while also alerting police. His wife, Kimberly Boyd, was killed on 12 September 2005 after being carjacked by convicted sex offender Brian O’Neil Clark and forced to withdraw cash at an ATM. (She died when Clark crashed her SUV while being followed by a civilian who ultimately shot Clark to death afterwards.) Such a bill was placed before the Georgia Senate on 29 December 2005 (SB 379), but nothing came of it.

In 2004, the Kansas state senate sent to its Financial Institutions and Insurance Committee SB 333, a bill that stated: “Any automated teller machine operated in this state shall be designed and programmed so that when a consumer enters such consumer’s personal identification number in reverse order, the automated teller machine automatically sends an alarm to the local law enforcement agency having jurisdiction over the automated teller machine location.” That bill died in committee that year.

All this talk of various bills in three different state legislatures may serve to obscure some of the more important points attaching to this issue, points that are key to making up one’s mind about whether having such a system in place is actually a good idea.

No one in the banking industry seems to want the technology. The banks argue against its implementation, not only on the basis of cost but also because they doubt such an alert would help anyone being coerced into making an ATM withdrawal. Even if police could be summoned via the keying of a special “alert” or “panic” code, they say, law enforcement would likely arrive long after victim and captor had departed. They have also warned of the very real possibility that victims’ fumbling around while trying to trigger silent alarms could cause their captors to realize something was up and take those realizations out on their captives.

Finally, there is the problem of ATM customers’ quickly conjuring up their accustomed PINs in reverse: Even in situations lacking added stress, mentally reconstructing one’s PIN backwards is a difficult task for many people. Add to that difficulty the terror of being in the possession of a violent and armed person, and precious few victims might be able to come up with reversed PINs seamlessly enough to fool their captors into believing that everything was proceeding according to plan. As Chuck Stones of the Kansas Bankers Association said in 2004: “I’m not sure anyone here could remember their PIN numbers backward with a gun to their head.”
SNOPES.COM
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Old 23rd May 2020, 17:20
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I can remember my PIN in reverse. It works, too
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Old 23rd May 2020, 23:39
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Why does everyone from a queue at ATM's at a right angle to the wall, thereby blocking the pavement ? If I ever try to suggest that we queue parallel to the wall - which also precludes anyone looking over your shoulder - I'm regarded as some sort of crook. The only time I have any sort of partial success is if I'm first to start a queue.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:06
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Originally Posted by ExSp33db1rd View Post
Why does everyone from a queue at ATM's at a right angle to the wall, thereby blocking the pavement ? If I ever try to suggest that we queue parallel to the wall - which also precludes anyone looking over your shoulder - I'm regarded as some sort of crook. The only time I have any sort of partial success is if I'm first to start a queue.
I remember when I was first in the queue at the ATM in Lightwater, Surrey and the machine announced it couldn't dispense cash; I was aware of people queueing behind me and without looking round I said 'there's no money in the machine' only to hear a familiar voice boom out 'oh dear what shall I do now?'
It was actor Brian Blessed who lived nearby at the time.
(Mind you from what I witnessed in the nearby Budgens, he could never remember his PIN anyway!)
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Old 25th May 2020, 06:36
  #25 (permalink)  
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Since we're well OT (but worth the reminiscing) I'll chime in with two PIN/ATM experiences

Back in the Dark Ages the original ATM worked on paper IBM punch cards, with £1 being spat out for each punch card: five punch cards were all that the bank would allow at a time, but that was plenty in 1968! Cut to a dark and rainy night in Penzance and money needed for a taxi, when the unforeseen problem arose as the rain damaged each card enough for it to be chewed up and rejected. Fortunately the final one was accepted and a £1 note gradually eased out to allow a bedraggled SP to hail a Penzance cab

Re PINs and rejections thereof. I seldom used my Barclaycard, and oft reversed the PIN of 9099. Or was it 9909? Came a day when it was entered incorrectly and rejected, so I went into the branch for help. Politely told that I'd entered the wrong PIN three times and card nulled even though I'd only done the deed once. Oh no, came the response, that's three times in the life of the card!!! It was some 4 years old by then so I shouldn't complain, as it was still good for EFTPOS and in-bank use, just not for ATMs. The icing on the cake was the replacement card arrived plus the new PIN, which was exactly the same 9099 as for the old card

As for Emergency Tx codes, I remember the kerfuffle and concerns over who should know such secret stuff when they were introduced. It took some time to convince the Powers That Be to allow the airframe drivers to be let in on the sharing
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Old 25th May 2020, 08:40
  #26 (permalink)  
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An ATM in Penzance in 1968? Surely not...

Were you distracting me from my classwork with BEA S-61Ns?
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Old 25th May 2020, 15:18
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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1981. Hotlanta, Jawja. Hot date. Need money. Stop at nearby ATM, insert card, enter PIN, and request $40.00. Figurative red boxing glove at end of massive coil spring erupts from "Tillie the Alltime Teller" and hits me with full-strength uppercut while cursed machine eats my card!

Great date anyhow. She paid. We stayed out 'til sunrise. Life is full of surprises, yes?

- Ed
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Old 25th May 2020, 16:08
  #28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
An ATM in Penzance in 1968? Surely not...

Were you distracting me from my classwork with BEA S-61Ns?
Tredders, maybe very early 70s? All so long ago
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Old 25th May 2020, 21:05
  #29 (permalink)  
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It just seems quite radical for Penzance in '68 - there may have been! I wasn't of an age where I even had pocket money I should think...
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Old 26th May 2020, 00:51
  #30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
It just seems quite radical for Penzance in '68 - there may have been! I wasn't of an age where I even had pocket money I should think...
Here we go: Barclays were the world first to have a 'Cash dispenser' in 1967! My recollection is somewhat off, as the card gave £10, not £1




Interesting.....
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Old 26th May 2020, 08:37
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I had Barclaycash vouchers, (they weren't plastic cards); each one (which was the size or a cheque) got you £10 on punching in the correct PIN.
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