BOAC Stratocruisers across the Atlantic
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BOAC Stratocruisers across the Atlantic
Those of us brought up on turbine powered aircraft had it easy compared with these. Does anyone have similar stories to post?
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The 1955 film 'Out of the Clouds' dealt mainly with Stratocruiser Ops out of Heathrow; when 'Capt' James Robertson Justice has to div back to Heathrow with an engine problem, he is given a talkdown using PAR for his landing and the phraseology used by the controller is little different from that still used for talkdowns nowadays.
I can remember my parents taking us to 'London Airport' several times in the early '50s and watching 'Strats' doing power checks from the public viewing areas, firstly northside, then across the runway whilst the Central Area was still being built (and before the tunnel was built when you were 'marshalled 'across the taxiway and runway) then later still from the brand new 'Queens Building'.
I can remember my parents taking us to 'London Airport' several times in the early '50s and watching 'Strats' doing power checks from the public viewing areas, firstly northside, then across the runway whilst the Central Area was still being built (and before the tunnel was built when you were 'marshalled 'across the taxiway and runway) then later still from the brand new 'Queens Building'.
Those of us brought up on turbine powered aircraft had it easy compared with these. Does anyone have similar stories to post?
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I can't find his logbook as i write, but I know it contains such gems as "turned back at 40 West due headwinds" and on one occasion, an Eastbound crossing of some 16 hours out of New York has "record crossing" in the remarks. Can't recall where they landed though, probably Prestwick.
Post-war Britain, with rationing etc., was an austere place. Luxury goods, alcohol and tobacco were in short supply and expensive. Leaving New York, he once told me the Navigator would get in hours early to go through all the flight planning permutations, trying to ensure either the quickest trip, or if there was any chance they could make it direct. Lots of involvement from the Captain, lots of options explored. No organised track system in those days, weather ships en route, pressure pattern flying, intense briefings from the Meterologist, face to face no less. Then, the Irish opened the duty free shop in Shannon - the world's first.
After that he reckoned, no Stratocruiser ever flew past Shannon without stopping. Giving each Skipper a bottle of Scotch before departing New York would have saved a fortune!
Pan Am had one ditch beside a Pacific weather ship after engine problems meant it couldn't make the West Coast of the US with fuel remaining. I also believe, the Propeller caused enormous problems as many or more than the complex "corncob" radials engines., wasn't it Electric and with a Magnesium hub? Prone to runaways and fires?
As for the hinged fin: the 707 had the same feature and I'd be surprised of he 737 didn't have it too. I once saw a Monarch 720 outside their old black hangar at Luton, (northernmost corner of the apron, besides the Britannia ops block. Both gone now I believe) the 720's fin was folded flat on top of the right hand stabiliser in order to get it in the hangar.
Closest I've ever been to one since chldhood: the Musess de l"air et Espace at Le Bourget. They used to have a KC-97 parked outside. Magnificent machine.
As for the hinged fin: the 707 had the same feature and I'd be surprised of he 737 didn't have it too. I once saw a Monarch 720 outside their old black hangar at Luton, (northernmost corner of the apron, besides the Britannia ops block. Both gone now I believe) the 720's fin was folded flat on top of the right hand stabiliser in order to get it in the hangar.
Does anyone have a photo of one ?
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Dave, I've got some time on the 737 and as far as I'm aware.it didn't have a folding fin. However, I'm always learning and someone could surprise me
I'm strugging to get my head around the image of folding a 720's fin to get it into the hangar. Clearly, as can be seen from the KC-135 photo, fin attachments aren't designed to be capable of supporting the weight of the fin when it's folded (hence the crane).
So I'd be fascinated to know how you move an aircraft into a hangar once the fin is folded ...
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This is all news to me as well. Amazing the things you learn on this page!
You mean using a crane, as opposed to all standing on the h/stab and heaving? 
Nice video of a KC-135 fin being folded here: https://www.dvidshub.net/video/356002/fin-fold
Nice video of a KC-135 fin being folded here: https://www.dvidshub.net/video/356002/fin-fold
Psychophysiological entity
Hmmm . . . prime need for getting the tail in for servicing: the folding fin.
One of no the most convincing, UFO story I've ever seen was an BOAC Stratocruiser's captain, crew and some passengers seeing an object with orbiting satellites that IIRC went inside the 'mother ship'. My words. I've kept the article for decades but put somewhere in the last move. It was published in a science magazine but the only Google I can find now is the one that looks more than a tad schoolboyish.
There is Pathe news interviewing the crew which I hadn't seen until c 2012 I recall the captains saying far from being frightening, it gave a feeling of wellbeing.
There is Pathe news interviewing the crew which I hadn't seen until c 2012 I recall the captains saying far from being frightening, it gave a feeling of wellbeing.
I had lunch there a couple months ago - it was pretty good and even the wife thought it was pretty cool to have lunch sitting in an old KC-97.
BSD ... started my BOAC career as a trainee Nav. on Strats. any chance that I might have flown with your dad ? When did he finish as a Strat Nav. ?
Not on the crew, but I remember a tale of a crew having a No. 3 engine runaway prop. one night, and their fear that it would fall off and hit the fuselage with disastrous, possibly fatal, results?
The Flt/Eng moved into the Nav.compartment behind the main flight deck to observe the wayward prop with the Aldis signal lamp that was still carried in those days - in the event of VHF loss and the need to use visual light signals to get ATC circuit and landing signals from the airport tower, I kid you not ! - to better keep his eye on the prop hub which was glowing red and getting hotter and hotter, and when he figured that it was about to separate used the intercom to shout "NOW", at which the Capt. put the aircraft into a fast, and steep, left bank. This threw the prop. safely over the top of the fuselage.
Unbelievably this subsequently happened to the same Captain at a subsequent date, but he was experienced this time !
I also believe, the Propeller caused enormous problems as many or more than the complex "corncob" radials engines., wasn't it Electric and with a Magnesium hub? Prone to runaways and fires?
The Flt/Eng moved into the Nav.compartment behind the main flight deck to observe the wayward prop with the Aldis signal lamp that was still carried in those days - in the event of VHF loss and the need to use visual light signals to get ATC circuit and landing signals from the airport tower, I kid you not ! - to better keep his eye on the prop hub which was glowing red and getting hotter and hotter, and when he figured that it was about to separate used the intercom to shout "NOW", at which the Capt. put the aircraft into a fast, and steep, left bank. This threw the prop. safely over the top of the fuselage.
Unbelievably this subsequently happened to the same Captain at a subsequent date, but he was experienced this time !
Some more images of a B-52 fin folding here: https://www.barksdale.af.mil/News/Fe...d-fix-and-fly/
I think that the crane is there to support the weight during the process, as for how it is supported when it's folded, I cannot answer that question. I cannot point to the source right now but I'm pretty sure I've read in various places that the early, larger fins on the 707 family supported the fin folding so that it could fit into the hangars of those days, or perhaps even as a result of its military pedigree in the C-135 programme.
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
I'm strugging to get my head around the image of folding a 720's fin to get it into the hangar. Clearly, as can be seen from the KC-135 photo, fin attachments aren't designed to be capable of supporting the weight of the fin when it's folded (hence the crane).
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Monarch B720’s sat in the hangar at Luton for a month or so, on a big check, with the fin ‘folded over’ unsupported. I suspect the earlier photo of a US KC135 (post #5) had either been just lowered, or about to be lifted by the attached crane. Unless Boeing had changed the system for the US military.
At Luton the B720 fin was folded down and rested on the horizontal stab. to allow the aircraft to be pushed into the northeast side of hangar 1/2. There was a large girder supporting the valley of the roof where the two hangars were joined together and this was too low for the fin to pass under. A BAC 1-11 would go under.
Monarch B720’s sat in the hangar at Luton for a month or so, on a big check, with the fin ‘folded over’ unsupported. I suspect the earlier photo of a US KC135 (post #5) had either been just lowered, or about to be lifted by the attached crane. Unless Boeing had changed the system for the US military.
Here's another view of the KC-135 fin folded, captured from a USAF video:
You don't need to be an engineer to work out that, if the crane is removed without any other means of support, the fin will continue to hinge downwards until it clobbers the tailplane. Hence the crane in the photo is continuing to take the load to keep the fin horizontal (actually in this instance as a preliminary to complete removal of the fin to replace the rudder).
This photo, on the other hand, of 720 OY-DSK before it was impounded and broken up at Luton, appears to show how MAEL got round the problem:
Rather than defying gravity, you can just discern between the base of the fin and the fuselage what appears to be some kind of pad which, in conjunction with the pin attachments for the fin, maintains it in a more-or-less horizontal plane with a reasonable amount of clearance from the tailplane - it's clearly not resting on it.
The photo from Flickr rather unhelpfully claims that it was taken on October 2010 (which is obviously nonsense), so it's not clear whether the 720 in question ever flew again after the photo was taken.
We're still no nearer knowing whether the 707 shared the 720's ability to fold the fin. Given the close relationship between the two types, it might seem a reasonable assumption - but on the other hand, wth many more 707s built, it has so far proved impossible to track down photographic evidence.
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Wow! Neat pictures of folding fins.
ExSp33dbrid - sent you a private message. Meantime, That engineer would have had a real incentive to call "Now" at just the right time. Getting it wrong I guess would have meant seeing the prop come to join him at the Navigators station!!!
BSD.
ExSp33dbrid - sent you a private message. Meantime, That engineer would have had a real incentive to call "Now" at just the right time. Getting it wrong I guess would have meant seeing the prop come to join him at the Navigators station!!!
BSD.
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FWIW, the Nav station on the USAF C97 was actually behind the Capt. seat on the aft part of the flight deck. It was not like the Connie which had the Nav sation located outside of the cockpit. Carry on please