Name that Flying Machine
Well, that's the giveaway! It's variously described as a Curtis "Pusher", B18 and in one case a B2. I can find no definitive reference to a Curtis B18 anywhere except in reports of the flights in Hawaii. It was demonstrated there by Bud Mars (double bubble there - Hawaii/Mars!) in 1910 on the Curtiss company's 30,000 mile world tour.
I suspect this must in reality be a type 2 modified with a single foreplane but can find no other reference to the specific model.
Bud so disliked people watching from the hills and not paying an entry fee he decamped in a huff to Japan - the old cheapskate!
Thanks SLB.
http://hiavps.com/Bud%20Mars.htm
Nothing to offer I'm afraid,
I suspect this must in reality be a type 2 modified with a single foreplane but can find no other reference to the specific model.
Bud so disliked people watching from the hills and not paying an entry fee he decamped in a huff to Japan - the old cheapskate!
Thanks SLB.
http://hiavps.com/Bud%20Mars.htm
Nothing to offer I'm afraid,
Last edited by meleagertoo; 27th Feb 2021 at 14:07.
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It's not just me, then. As I live in a country where hunting deer from helicopters is a thing, I can never read "COW gun" right. I also chose this picture because in another thread there's a discussion about when Bomber Command learned about Schraege Musik: given this, and the better known Vickers anti-bovine equipment, it's odd that Freeman Dyson thought they didn't know about it.
Noyade, of course, is right.
Noyade, of course, is right.
Gentlemen - I'd like to remind you of the 24hr rule - I have no desire to be wrapped on the knuckles (again) by the mods
A rule introduced by the Mods (god Bless them all!) after some of the "what..." threads were taken over by people who just posted non-stop and got fired up when they had to wait for an answer. Don't bother arguing - they mean it and people have been suspended or banned
the rules are :-Wait 24 hours to confirm!
as Senior Pilot said (What Cockpit post # 1350 07/01/20) "Quite simply, you can post and discuss to your heart's content from the moment a challenge appears, but the declaration of a winner will not occur until 24 hours has elapsed. This applies to all three competition threads: a reference Wiki also covers the airfield thread.I would emphasise that all threads should respect that this is the Aviation History & Nostalgia forum with an expectation of historic images and/or subjects please."
So , in the case above, I have to wait 24 hours after someone gets the correct answer before I as OP can confirm - then it is open for a new challenge
19th Feb 2020
If you think that we're going back to dooks, evansb and a few others having parlour games: it's not going to happen. Until you recognise this is an International Forum and refrain from the pretence of not understanding a very simple rule whereby a winner is not named until 24 hours after the original post, then this and all spotters threads will be under the 24 hour rule. This includes the resurrected Silhouette thread.
the rules are :-Wait 24 hours to confirm!
as Senior Pilot said (What Cockpit post # 1350 07/01/20) "Quite simply, you can post and discuss to your heart's content from the moment a challenge appears, but the declaration of a winner will not occur until 24 hours has elapsed. This applies to all three competition threads: a reference Wiki also covers the airfield thread.I would emphasise that all threads should respect that this is the Aviation History & Nostalgia forum with an expectation of historic images and/or subjects please."
So , in the case above, I have to wait 24 hours after someone gets the correct answer before I as OP can confirm - then it is open for a new challenge
19th Feb 2020
If you think that we're going back to dooks, evansb and a few others having parlour games: it's not going to happen. Until you recognise this is an International Forum and refrain from the pretence of not understanding a very simple rule whereby a winner is not named until 24 hours after the original post, then this and all spotters threads will be under the 24 hour rule. This includes the resurrected Silhouette thread.
everyone had run off over the horizon so it seemed a bit pointless to post ... but apparently it was a Curtiss B-18 modified by Shiver by adding several feet to the wingspan and (possibly) changing the fabric.
They were termed "Skylarks" as that was what Mrs Shriver named one with a bottle of champagne
They made the first HOA flights in both Hawaii and the Philippines - where I believe a replica is on show
They were termed "Skylarks" as that was what Mrs Shriver named one with a bottle of champagne
They made the first HOA flights in both Hawaii and the Philippines - where I believe a replica is on show
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My apologies, Asturias. For those of us near the Date Line, the protocol is normally self-enforcing, but I will remember in future. I don't see how I can make it good, but if the mods give you grief, you can say, truthfully, that I have imposed a self-denying ordinance on myself for a week.
No need for apologies - iI just don't want anyone zeroed (or worse!) - it all just got a bit mixed up - I suggest Noyade takes the con as he got the COW pretty damn quick!
everyone had run off over the horizon so it seemed a bit pointless to post ... but apparently it was a Curtiss B-18 modified by Shiver by adding several feet to the wingspan and (possibly) changing the fabric.
They were termed "Skylarks" as that was what Mrs Shriver named one with a bottle of champagne
They made the first HOA flights in both Hawaii and the Philippines - where I believe a replica is on show
They were termed "Skylarks" as that was what Mrs Shriver named one with a bottle of champagne
They made the first HOA flights in both Hawaii and the Philippines - where I believe a replica is on show
Well, thanks for doing so. I've learned something of interest from that and far more useful than any quibbling about '24hr rules' of which I knew nothing.
Curtiss B18 Skylark is it? Mmm. I got work to do there! Heaven knows how as Google only produces one hit for Curtiss B18 and none for skylark! A mystery to unravel! Anyone got more?
I have to say that I always thought that Curtiss' early designs looked far more practical and useful than most of his contemporaries' especially with his early adoption of tricycle undercarriage, albeit abandoned later. I wonder why, he must have realised the advantages.
He was a gifted designer and engineer when you look at his achievements both on wings and wheels
Last edited by meleagertoo; 1st Mar 2021 at 22:19.
I found it when I was looking at a history of flying in the Philippines - meleagertoo's post has the link Bud Mars I found from the Philippines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Mars
also this2018 by Peter T Young1 COMMENT
First Flight in Hawai‘i – 1910
Bud Mars was the first man to fly an airplane in Hawaii on December 31, 1910. (The Tuttle boys flew in a glider shortly before Mars’ powered flight.)
Piloting a Curtiss B-18 biplane, he flew to 500-feet over Moanalua Polo Field, Oahu. He repeated the flight the next day to the thrill of thousands of spectators.
On December 19, 1910, a “real birdman” arrived in Honolulu aboard the Manchuria. Whipple Hall, agent for the Curtiss Aircraft Company, debarked with an excitingly strange proposal. He announced that within a week two airplanes and men to fly them would arrive by ship. Hawaii was to be the first stop on the group’s 30,000-mile demonstration tour which included Japan, China, the Philippines, Siam, Singapore, Java, Persia, Africa, the Holy Land, Egypt, Spain, France, England, and “anywhere else bird men had not been seen before.”
The Curtiss agent proceeded with arrangements for the entourage’s arrival and the exhibition flights. During an interview, Hall explained that his Curtiss flying machine was a speedster, requiring 35 miles per hour to stay off the ground, while the competitive Wright planes, with their greater lifting power, would go backwards and keep climbing in a strong wind. Honolulu’s imagination was stirred by Hall’s words. Residents looked forward to the arrival of the men and flying machines. Announcements continued in daily newspapers, plus features on flying. On December 27, 1910, J. C. “Bud” Mars, pilot for the demonstrations, arrived on the Wilhelmina. Their strange looking metal birds were taken to Samuel Damon’s Moanalua polo field for assemblage. Each was a pusher craft with propeller and engine behind the pilot; there was no cabin or compartment for the man. Bud Mars had the reputation of being the most daring flyer in the United States. A case was cited to the press of him swooping under the bridges across the Mississippi River.
Tickets for Honolulu spectators went on sale at the Empire Theater, the M.A. Gunst cigar store and the Alexander Young Hotel, at one dollar each. One airplane was assembled by December 29th, two days later, all was in flight readiness. People arrived on the scene by auto, bus, carriage, drawn by horses, bicycles and afoot. Most of the 3,000 fans that paid admission charges were in full attendance at Moanalua polo field. Hundreds more gathered on surrounding hilltops. The tent hangar was filled with curious people observing the plane’s odd assemblage of spruce, ash, bamboo, steel tubing, and rubberized silk wing covering (an invention of Baldwin). Several feet wider than the ordinary Curtiss biplane, Shiver’s design gave it about 30 feet of wing span, its wings five feet wide and the same distance apart.
Soon after 2 pm, December 31, 1910, the mainland group finished preparations and the slight young man, Mars, climbed aboard the biplane. The marines who guarded the plane moved to one side and the manned box-kite made its way bumpily down the grass “runway.” By Captain Baldwin’s watch, it took Mars nine seconds to get airborne. Thousands of people burst into a yell of approval to see their first airplane flight. They were watching history being made in a feat—unknown to them at the time—which would alter the destiny of Hawaii and, along with other places, the world. Climbing to 500 feet, Mars flew to the hills then back over Moanalua field. Within minutes, he brought the airplane to a standstill on the ground and the crowds gathered in close to see the new hero dismount his iron bird. The test flight was a complete success.
The group then set up a christening ceremony, with the designer’s wife doing the honors. There was no champagne available but someone went to get some by motorcycle. When it arrived, Mrs. Shriver christened the plane “Skylark,” as Mrs. Mars stood by elated at her husband’s performance. Now more relaxed, the young pilot mounted his Skylark and proceeded to make another flight. This time he flew higher and farther. His route was to Red Hill, which commands a superb view of Pearl Harbor and the military plains of Leilehua beyond. A third time, he pleased his promoters by dropping paper souvenirs over Moanalua field.
The following day, Mars’ statement appeared on the front page of the SUNDAY ADVERTISER: “I am proud to have been the first man to fly over the soil of these beautiful Islands.” Then added, “I am proud to hold the pioneer air record for Honolulu and I am glad, too, that the new Skylark has taken her maiden flight here. She is after this the Honolulu Skylark and I will call her that wherever we go on our trip towards the Far East. I find your Hawaiian air currents rather tough ones, but everything else was lovely.” Watching the flight activity, one local boy referred to Mars’ airplane as “Pinao” (Hawaiian for dragonfly.) Another cried out, “Aloha, Mokulele!” (sky-boat, aircraft).
--------------------------------------------
But they found that most people watched from the surrounding hills and didn't pay so they packed up after a week or so and went on to the Far East
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Mars
also this2018 by Peter T Young1 COMMENT
First Flight in Hawai‘i – 1910
Bud Mars was the first man to fly an airplane in Hawaii on December 31, 1910. (The Tuttle boys flew in a glider shortly before Mars’ powered flight.)
Piloting a Curtiss B-18 biplane, he flew to 500-feet over Moanalua Polo Field, Oahu. He repeated the flight the next day to the thrill of thousands of spectators.
On December 19, 1910, a “real birdman” arrived in Honolulu aboard the Manchuria. Whipple Hall, agent for the Curtiss Aircraft Company, debarked with an excitingly strange proposal. He announced that within a week two airplanes and men to fly them would arrive by ship. Hawaii was to be the first stop on the group’s 30,000-mile demonstration tour which included Japan, China, the Philippines, Siam, Singapore, Java, Persia, Africa, the Holy Land, Egypt, Spain, France, England, and “anywhere else bird men had not been seen before.”
The Curtiss agent proceeded with arrangements for the entourage’s arrival and the exhibition flights. During an interview, Hall explained that his Curtiss flying machine was a speedster, requiring 35 miles per hour to stay off the ground, while the competitive Wright planes, with their greater lifting power, would go backwards and keep climbing in a strong wind. Honolulu’s imagination was stirred by Hall’s words. Residents looked forward to the arrival of the men and flying machines. Announcements continued in daily newspapers, plus features on flying. On December 27, 1910, J. C. “Bud” Mars, pilot for the demonstrations, arrived on the Wilhelmina. Their strange looking metal birds were taken to Samuel Damon’s Moanalua polo field for assemblage. Each was a pusher craft with propeller and engine behind the pilot; there was no cabin or compartment for the man. Bud Mars had the reputation of being the most daring flyer in the United States. A case was cited to the press of him swooping under the bridges across the Mississippi River.
Tickets for Honolulu spectators went on sale at the Empire Theater, the M.A. Gunst cigar store and the Alexander Young Hotel, at one dollar each. One airplane was assembled by December 29th, two days later, all was in flight readiness. People arrived on the scene by auto, bus, carriage, drawn by horses, bicycles and afoot. Most of the 3,000 fans that paid admission charges were in full attendance at Moanalua polo field. Hundreds more gathered on surrounding hilltops. The tent hangar was filled with curious people observing the plane’s odd assemblage of spruce, ash, bamboo, steel tubing, and rubberized silk wing covering (an invention of Baldwin). Several feet wider than the ordinary Curtiss biplane, Shiver’s design gave it about 30 feet of wing span, its wings five feet wide and the same distance apart.
Soon after 2 pm, December 31, 1910, the mainland group finished preparations and the slight young man, Mars, climbed aboard the biplane. The marines who guarded the plane moved to one side and the manned box-kite made its way bumpily down the grass “runway.” By Captain Baldwin’s watch, it took Mars nine seconds to get airborne. Thousands of people burst into a yell of approval to see their first airplane flight. They were watching history being made in a feat—unknown to them at the time—which would alter the destiny of Hawaii and, along with other places, the world. Climbing to 500 feet, Mars flew to the hills then back over Moanalua field. Within minutes, he brought the airplane to a standstill on the ground and the crowds gathered in close to see the new hero dismount his iron bird. The test flight was a complete success.
The group then set up a christening ceremony, with the designer’s wife doing the honors. There was no champagne available but someone went to get some by motorcycle. When it arrived, Mrs. Shriver christened the plane “Skylark,” as Mrs. Mars stood by elated at her husband’s performance. Now more relaxed, the young pilot mounted his Skylark and proceeded to make another flight. This time he flew higher and farther. His route was to Red Hill, which commands a superb view of Pearl Harbor and the military plains of Leilehua beyond. A third time, he pleased his promoters by dropping paper souvenirs over Moanalua field.
The following day, Mars’ statement appeared on the front page of the SUNDAY ADVERTISER: “I am proud to have been the first man to fly over the soil of these beautiful Islands.” Then added, “I am proud to hold the pioneer air record for Honolulu and I am glad, too, that the new Skylark has taken her maiden flight here. She is after this the Honolulu Skylark and I will call her that wherever we go on our trip towards the Far East. I find your Hawaiian air currents rather tough ones, but everything else was lovely.” Watching the flight activity, one local boy referred to Mars’ airplane as “Pinao” (Hawaiian for dragonfly.) Another cried out, “Aloha, Mokulele!” (sky-boat, aircraft).
--------------------------------------------
But they found that most people watched from the surrounding hills and didn't pay so they packed up after a week or so and went on to the Far East
Breguet produced a few horrors but I don't think this is one of theirs............
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Are you quite sure it's an aeroplane, SLB, looks like some early form of combine harvester!
(I once saw some one use a Jodel D.112 as a combine, albeit rather unintentionally and fortunately with no damage to the aircraft!)
(I once saw some one use a Jodel D.112 as a combine, albeit rather unintentionally and fortunately with no damage to the aircraft!)
I only just learned that this design only made a few jumps.
So indeed perhaps more successful as harvester.
Here below its designer on the left, getting his flying lessons from the first professional in the business.
So indeed perhaps more successful as harvester.
Here below its designer on the left, getting his flying lessons from the first professional in the business.