Name that Flying Machine
According to this people have become around 10 cm taller the last hundred years:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-23896855
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-23896855
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My comments on size related, principally, to the depth, rather than the width, of the fuselage. Whilst making no admissions as to the assertion that, a century ago, people were generally slimmer, I don't think that the same can be argued for their height and, more specifically, their leg length. But I suppose it can be argued that the pilot may have sat with his legs in a horizontal position - or even that it was flown by a prone pilot!
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Just a thought could it possibly be a modified Luton LA.3 Minor fitted with an Anzani (British/Luton) 35 h.p. Vee Twin.
Similar to this aircraft https://nelsam.org.uk/Exhibits/Search/?search=G-AFUG. I have been through Arthur W.J.G. Ord-Hume's book British Light Aeroplanes Their Evolution, Develpment and Perfection 1920-1940 and can find no reference to this aircraft.
Alec S C Lumcden in his book "British Piston Aero-Engines and their Aircraft" lists the Anzani engines on page 62. Aircraft listed under the Azani (British) 35 hp Vee Twin are the ANEC I,IA and II; Bristol Prier-Dickson and the Hawker Cygnet and for the Anzai (British/Luton) 35hp Vee Twin the Luton Buzzard I & II , Luton LA4A Minor and the Migner HM 14 Pou du Ciel.
Similar to this aircraft https://nelsam.org.uk/Exhibits/Search/?search=G-AFUG. I have been through Arthur W.J.G. Ord-Hume's book British Light Aeroplanes Their Evolution, Develpment and Perfection 1920-1940 and can find no reference to this aircraft.
Alec S C Lumcden in his book "British Piston Aero-Engines and their Aircraft" lists the Anzani engines on page 62. Aircraft listed under the Azani (British) 35 hp Vee Twin are the ANEC I,IA and II; Bristol Prier-Dickson and the Hawker Cygnet and for the Anzai (British/Luton) 35hp Vee Twin the Luton Buzzard I & II , Luton LA4A Minor and the Migner HM 14 Pou du Ciel.
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Although it's been said that the power plant in the aeroplane exhibits features not to be found on a Blackburne Tomtit, based on the limited available evidence I think that it would be a brave man who asserts, categorically, that it isn't a Tomtit. And if it might be a Tomtit, the possibility of a modified Heath Parasol comes to mind. The first British registered Heath Parasol (G-AFZE) - which, whilst registered in 1939, didn't fly until 1949 - was powered by a Tomtit.
Last edited by fauteuil volant; 28th Apr 2020 at 16:17.
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Similar to this aircraft https://nelsam.org.uk/Exhibits/Search/?search=G-AFUG. I have been through Arthur W.J.G. Ord-Hume's book British Light Aeroplanes Their Evolution, Develpment and Perfection 1920-1940 and can find no reference to this aircraft.
Whilst it is not specifically mentioned by Ord-Hume, on p.403 of his book he says, with reference to the LA.4 Minor, that:
'Several aircraft were built pre-war with engines ranging from Scott Flying Squirrel, Anzani, Bristol Cherub Mk. III, Carden-Ford and Aeronca-JAP'.
As G-AFUG lost its engine before being donated to NELSAM, presumably it's not known whether it had one of these.
p.s. isn't Alec Lumsden's book a tour de force in its field!
Last edited by fauteuil volant; 28th Apr 2020 at 16:33.
G-AFUG was registered as a 'Henry-Luton LA-4 Minor' with construction number WSH.1. The 'WSH' was William Sheppard Henry of Chronicle Buildings, Newtonards, County Down, Northern Ireland. Its given base was Ards Airport when registered in 1939. It's hard to reconcile that with the NELSAM statement that it was constructed by Frederick Brown in Front Street, Stanley, County Durham between 1938 and 1944.
While a BAPC number doesn't necessarily imply that it's a replica and not a real aircraft, it could well be that Mr Brown built a copy of the original.
The exhibit was reportedly donated to the (then) NEAM in 1975. The real G-AFUG was de-registered in 1946. If the same aircraft, where did it spend the 30 intervening years?
Coincidentally (or not) a homebuilt helicopter built by Frederick Brown of Stanley, County Durham in the early 1960s was also(?) donated to the NEAM in 1975 and was registered as BAPC.96.
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Three days ago Mechta posted a link to the forum where originally the photograph was posted. On that forum there are two close-ups, apparently taken from the photograph when it had been removed from under glass.The first shows the forward fuselage. The other shows the engine. On that forum there has been some debate about the letters that appear to be on the fuselage, just aft of the firewall. Some have suggested that these are part of a registration mark. I've not seen any British aircraft that carries its registration mark in that position. Some have suggested that the letters are 'NATT'. Having looked carefully at the letters, using a magnifying glass, I think that they are more likely to be 'GNAT'.
Putting aside Folland's jet, the only other British aeroplane that I associate with 'GNAT' was F.G.Miles first, abortive attempt at aircraft construction, which was built in his father's laundry in Portslade, Sussex, in 1925/26. Evidently the aeroplane in the photograph isn't that Gnat - it was a biplane - but the thought crosses my mind (and I appreciate that this is a very long shot) that possibly the aeroplane in the photograph might have been constructed from the components of Miles' Gnat after construction of that had been abandoned.
As far as I'm aware, very little is known and has been written about Miles' Gnat. The main source of which I know is Don Brown's 'Miles Aircraft since 1925' (Putnam). In that he says:
'With the help of a friend, F.Wallis, he [Miles] evolved the 'design' of a small biplane known as the Gnat. Having completed the few drawings they thought necessary, they started construction, using as longerons the ash chassis of a small sports car which Miles had been building.'
'At length, the airframe of the Gnat was practically complete except for covering with fabric. A small two cylinder engine of 698cc was bought, complete with a 4 ft diameter airscrew, still in the author's possession, which had been used in one of the aeroplanes built for the Lympne competitions of 1923.'
Broadly the same information is related by Arthur Ord-Hume in 'British Light Aeroplanes - their Evolution, Development and Perfection 1920 - 1940' (GMS). However he says that the engine was to have been a 698cc Blackburne (which strongly suggests that it was a V twin Tomtit). I've looked carefully, again using a magnifying glass, at the close-up, taken from the original photograph, of the engine of the aeroplane in the photograph. Allowing for the low resolution and concomitant lack of clarity, whilst one might argue that it has features which suggest that it isn't a Tomtit it would be a brave man who, based on that evidence, would assert that it definitely is not a Tomtit! Thus that possibility must remain.
Unfortunately I don't have Peter Amos' three volume history of Miles Aircraft and so I don't know if that contains any more information about the Gnat (if anyone reading this has that, it may be worth checking it). The intimation of Don Brown is that, with the subsequent involvement of Cecil Pashley and the acquisition of an Avro 504K, Miles' Gnat was side-lined and eventually abandoned incomplete. So could it be that the engine and propeller destined for Miles' Gnat found their way into the hands of the grandfather of the original poster on the other forum, to be used on the aeroplane depicted in the photograph, and that the propeller, at least, ultimately passed to his grandson ? If so it is difficult to reconcile the grandson's statement, that he has the propeller from the aircraft shown in his photograph, with Don Brown's assertion that he was in possession of the propeller destined for Miles' Gnat (presumably c. 1970, when his book was published). Despite this it would be most interesting to know the dimensions of the grandson's propeller (in the context of Don Brown's statement that the Gnat was to have had a four foot propeller) and how and when it came into his possession (Don Brown died in the early 1980s - what became of his propeller, subsequent to that, I don't know).
Putting aside Folland's jet, the only other British aeroplane that I associate with 'GNAT' was F.G.Miles first, abortive attempt at aircraft construction, which was built in his father's laundry in Portslade, Sussex, in 1925/26. Evidently the aeroplane in the photograph isn't that Gnat - it was a biplane - but the thought crosses my mind (and I appreciate that this is a very long shot) that possibly the aeroplane in the photograph might have been constructed from the components of Miles' Gnat after construction of that had been abandoned.
As far as I'm aware, very little is known and has been written about Miles' Gnat. The main source of which I know is Don Brown's 'Miles Aircraft since 1925' (Putnam). In that he says:
'With the help of a friend, F.Wallis, he [Miles] evolved the 'design' of a small biplane known as the Gnat. Having completed the few drawings they thought necessary, they started construction, using as longerons the ash chassis of a small sports car which Miles had been building.'
'At length, the airframe of the Gnat was practically complete except for covering with fabric. A small two cylinder engine of 698cc was bought, complete with a 4 ft diameter airscrew, still in the author's possession, which had been used in one of the aeroplanes built for the Lympne competitions of 1923.'
Broadly the same information is related by Arthur Ord-Hume in 'British Light Aeroplanes - their Evolution, Development and Perfection 1920 - 1940' (GMS). However he says that the engine was to have been a 698cc Blackburne (which strongly suggests that it was a V twin Tomtit). I've looked carefully, again using a magnifying glass, at the close-up, taken from the original photograph, of the engine of the aeroplane in the photograph. Allowing for the low resolution and concomitant lack of clarity, whilst one might argue that it has features which suggest that it isn't a Tomtit it would be a brave man who, based on that evidence, would assert that it definitely is not a Tomtit! Thus that possibility must remain.
Unfortunately I don't have Peter Amos' three volume history of Miles Aircraft and so I don't know if that contains any more information about the Gnat (if anyone reading this has that, it may be worth checking it). The intimation of Don Brown is that, with the subsequent involvement of Cecil Pashley and the acquisition of an Avro 504K, Miles' Gnat was side-lined and eventually abandoned incomplete. So could it be that the engine and propeller destined for Miles' Gnat found their way into the hands of the grandfather of the original poster on the other forum, to be used on the aeroplane depicted in the photograph, and that the propeller, at least, ultimately passed to his grandson ? If so it is difficult to reconcile the grandson's statement, that he has the propeller from the aircraft shown in his photograph, with Don Brown's assertion that he was in possession of the propeller destined for Miles' Gnat (presumably c. 1970, when his book was published). Despite this it would be most interesting to know the dimensions of the grandson's propeller (in the context of Don Brown's statement that the Gnat was to have had a four foot propeller) and how and when it came into his possession (Don Brown died in the early 1980s - what became of his propeller, subsequent to that, I don't know).
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Certainly looks that way. I have just received a copy of Arthur W J G Ord-Hume's book "On Home-Made Wings" and hoped that might give a clue but unfortunately not. The thing that strikes me most about the mystery aircraft is the undercarriage. It has the appearance of a sprung steel type. Which may indicate the aircraft was built in 30s. Just a thought.
Last edited by MReyn24050; 5th May 2020 at 08:43.
Although it's been said that the power plant in the aeroplane exhibits features not to be found on a Blackburne Tomtit, based on the limited available evidence I think that it would be a brave man who asserts, categorically, that it isn't a Tomtit. And if it might be a Tomtit, the possibility of a modified Heath Parasol comes to mind. The first British registered Heath Parasol (G-AFZE) - which, whilst registered in 1939, didn't fly until 1949 - was powered by a Tomtit.
I am afraid we will not get any further without additional info.
When Mechta has more info or somebody else digs something up,
We can always do another intermezzo.
As MReyn has ID the Avia and Vultee, I suggest You come up with a new challenge?
When Mechta has more info or somebody else digs something up,
We can always do another intermezzo.
As MReyn has ID the Avia and Vultee, I suggest You come up with a new challenge?
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I am afraid we will not get any further without additional info.
When Mechta has more info or somebody else digs something up,
We can always do another intermezzo.
As MReyn has ID the Avia and Vultee, I suggest You come up with a new challenge?
When Mechta has more info or somebody else digs something up,
We can always do another intermezzo.
As MReyn has ID the Avia and Vultee, I suggest You come up with a new challenge?
