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British airline industry- so many failures?

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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 21:22
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British airline industry- so many failures?

I can't help but think there is an inherent problem with the airline industry in the UK. Compared with other countries we have so many failures. Here are a few:

Air Safaris
Pegasus
Skyways
Trans European (the one with Constellations)
Treffield
British Eagle
Tradewinds
IAS
Lloyd International
Channel Airways
Donaldson
Court Line
Laker
Air Europe
British Caledonian
Dan Air
British Midland ( and fly BMI etc).
Duo
XL airways
Wales Cyrmru
British World
Silverjet
Highland Airways
Monarch
Thomas Cook

And many more smaller companies (please name those I have missed). . I know some were taken over for a token sum but they were bust really. How do we make things more stable for employees and travellers.
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 21:51
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I think you would need to count how many airlines were started in the UK and over what period of time. Then note how long each carrier was active for. Then collate the same data for the countries you wish to make the comparison with. Countries will need to be categorised by population size and the era in which the companies were operational, taking account of such things as recessions and boom periods. It may simply be that more airlines were started in the UK and the soze of the population might not have supported that level of optimism - but we currently have no means of knowing.

Further, Thomas Cook from it's first iteration, has been in business for 150+ years and very, VERY few companies make it past 100 years. [ps I see The Guardian stating they had been in business 178 years]
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 08:36
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22/04,

If you were to produce a similar list of US airlines that have failed or disappeared it would be HUGE!
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 08:43
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Two airlines just failed in France : Aigle Azur and XL Airways
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 21:20
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If you want to have £2,000,000 start an airline with £50,000,000
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 08:58
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Missing from your list (at first glance)...

Orion
Air 2000
Gill Airways
Excalibur
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 09:09
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Orion and Air 2000 did not fail; they were amalgamated with other airlines. Both ended up as part of what is now TUI
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 10:48
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There are many more - Paramount, Debonair, Buzz, numerous cargo carriers....what this demonstrates is not that UK aviators are inherently inept, but that the investment environment is well-disposed towards air transport. One reason for that is that the Regulatory regime, issueing Licences, is open to new entrants. Painful to fill in all the forms, raise financial evidence...but if a team does its homework, they can fly. The incumbent big boys have less scope to block newcomers than in, say, France.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 15:41
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Originally Posted by 22/04
. Compared with other countries we have so many failures.
I think compared with other (European) countries, we have had so many more airlines created as well. I can name Hunting-Clan, Independent Air Travel, Continental Air Services, Overseas Aviation, Airwork, Air Charter, British United, Cambrian, BKS, Jersey Airlines, Morton Air Services, Olley Air Services, Transair, Silver City and Starways, all from the 50s and 60s just for starters. There were some of these earlier airlines with names duplicated later as well (at least two Pegasus, Orion etc). Many of these went bust but were effectively just taken over by another airline at low cost - where do you draw the line?

To start understanding the industry, you need to go back to the 1940s and see the government attitude then, with tight regulation over everyone and preference (and subsidy) for the state owned airlines. Then you have the development of the charter industry (because there were very few non-state operated scheduled routes allowed), followed by Laker and then Branson breaking the monopoly finally with full deregulation (and the EU helped). This was then followed by the budget airlines who have basically taken over. I know of some books which touch on this subject and there must be one or two devoted to it.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 18:33
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
22/04,

If you were to produce a similar list of US airlines that have failed or disappeared it would be HUGE!
Relatively few US airlines have 'failed' - most merged with or were taken over by other airlines.

That being said, after 40 years of intimate exposure to the business, I'm mildly impressed than anyone can make money - either the manufacturers or the operators.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 19:06
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I'm sure the same applies worldwide. But Britain is an island, so we have a greater propensity to travel than most, so more airlines are formed. We are also a fairly open economy, so start-ups are easier here than in some other jurisdictions.
What I think the number of failures shows is that aviation is a precarious business, that so many factors can affect - think terrorism, fuel prices, recession, regime change, weather, etc etc.

Oh, just thought of another one - Paramount.
And Air Exel.
Alidair
Air Bridge Carriers
Air Ferry
Invicta International
Capital
Euro Direct
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 04:39
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Originally Posted by tdracer
Relatively few US airlines have 'failed' - most merged with or were taken over by other airlines..
Pan Am? TWA? If you are gonna do it, do it large!
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 07:09
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Add Flightline to the list. BAe146 operator.

Having worked as cabin crew since 1982 Mrs ETOPS features in many of these airlines.
DanAir
Orion
Flightline
XL
BMI Baby
I call her the "airline assassin"

Won't say who she works for now just in case..........
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 13:58
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I was one of the last out of the door at FlyGlobespan and left bmibaby before the lights were turned off !
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 18:38
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Originally Posted by NumptyAussie
Pan Am? TWA? If you are gonna do it, do it large!
Numpty - Pan Am was purchased by Delta, Teeny Weeny was taken over by American - both while still operational airlines. They didn't "fail".
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 01:03
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Originally Posted by tdracer
Numpty - Pan Am was purchased by Delta, Teeny Weeny was taken over by American - both while still operational airlines. They didn't "fail".
you may be right, but I only know what I have read (i know Wiki can be manipulated) but I do welcome correction.

"Pan Am was forced to file for bankruptcy protection on January 8, 1991. Delta Air Lines purchased the remaining profitable assets...."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_..._World_Airways

"Under Icahn's direction, many of its most profitable assets were sold to competitors, much to the detriment of TWA.[35] Icahn was eventually ousted in 1993, though not before the airline was forced to file for bankruptcy on January 31, 1992.[36]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_World_Airlines
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 08:01
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Janus, another airline.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 11:02
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Metropolitan Airways and EVA (Ellen Vallin). Both out of Bournemouth.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 11:39
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Originally Posted by dixi188
EVA (Ellen Vallin)
Close.

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Old 29th Sep 2019, 12:32
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How about the cargo airline failures?

Tradewinds
Pelican Air Tranport
Scimitar
IAS Cargo
Transmeridian
ACE Freighters
Anglo Cargo
MK Airlines
Silver City Airways
Instone Airways

Last edited by Meikleour; 29th Sep 2019 at 17:30. Reason: addition
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