Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

Lysander Performance.

Old 26th Jun 2019, 16:26
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Yes.
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Lysander Performance.

For those unaware, the above mentioned a/c was for STOL operations during WW2. It had the engine to drag it through the air at a good speed and the wings and flaps to fly slow.

I believe this a/c was able to cruise up to 4 times it's stalling speed. This was according to a chap that operated the type then. Giving it some thought that is quite impressive even for modern a/c.

Is anyone able to name any other subsonic a/c able to achieve this wide range in speed variation??
Dan_Brown is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 16:45
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The last two military jets that I flew could, or do you mean only pistons.

The quoted stalling speed of the Lysander was 65 mph, and I doubt therefore whether it could achieve 260.
dook is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 17:01
  #3 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,538
Received 220 Likes on 134 Posts
212mph was its max speed says Wiki, certainly Shuttleworth's example performs in quite a spritely manner.
treadigraph is online now  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 18:10
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mordor
Posts: 1,315
Received 47 Likes on 26 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan_Brown
Is anyone able to name any other subsonic a/c able to achieve this wide range in speed variation??
Harrier and Sea Harrier spring to mind, but that's cheating.

The Airspeed Fleet Shadower achieved 3.4 cruise:stall, 3.82:1 max to stall - that's close...

PDR

PDR1 is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 18:43
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,788
Received 196 Likes on 90 Posts
Flight quotes the Lysander I as having a speed range of 55 mph to 229 mph, so the 4:1 claim would appear to be justified.
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 18:55
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: West Country
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How about the Scottish Aviation Pioneer? The 'single pin'.
Blossy is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 19:00
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bradfield CO11 2XD
Age: 81
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've just looked the Lysander 1 up in Thetfords A/c of the RAF and it says 219mph at 10.000 ft.Should it read MPH or Kts ??

Colin.
KING6024 is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 19:04
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Miles per hour.

Speeds were, and still are, often quoted as TAS not IAS.
dook is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 19:11
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Yes.
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I don't think any heavy a/c are capable of 4.0 or near it. Not at "normal cruise". Anyone?
Dan_Brown is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 20:02
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: east ESSEX
Posts: 4,624
Received 65 Likes on 40 Posts
SA Pioneer stall speed 36 mph; cruise 141mph; max 162mph.....
sycamore is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 20:56
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mordor
Posts: 1,315
Received 47 Likes on 26 Posts
What about the Helio Courier?

As far as I can gather it has a stall speed below 30mph and a max cruise of 167mph. That would be a ratio of 5.6:1

PDR
PDR1 is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2019, 21:10
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Yes.
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Indeed. Impressive.
Dan_Brown is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2019, 10:11
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: north cheriton
Age: 80
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As an ex-employee of the great Shorts company in the 1960s it was always said that the 1950s Seamew had the biggest speed range of anything going, with a stall speed in the 30s and some silly speed achievable in a terminal dive. I don't have pilots' notes or an ODM to verify numbers, but will check in due course.
But if cruise speed is the reference point isn't this just a function of the engine size, wouldn't Vs/Vd be more relevant?
The Seamew had a big barn door of a wing for 'loitering' until it was discovered that helicopters could do it better, but it was an attack aircraft so launching weapons in a dive was also part of its remit.
Feroxeng
feroxeng is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2019, 11:59
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 75
Posts: 10,799
Received 90 Likes on 63 Posts
Flight Design CT: Stall speed 40 mph, max speed 143 mph comes pretty close
chevvron is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2019, 13:58
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 8 Posts
The Shark UL:

Max. cruising speed 300 km/h
Optimum cruising speed 250-270 km/h
Stall speed, clean 80 km/h
Stall speed, full flaps 64 km/h

https://www.shark.aero/images/shark_ul/shark_ul_01.jpg
https://www.shark.aero/shark-ul
Vzlet is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2019, 14:13
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 8 Posts
The JMB VL-3:
Stall speed with flaps - 53 km/h
Max cruise - 305 km/h

https://www.jmbaircraft.com/aircraft
Vzlet is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2019, 19:46
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: West Country
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Feroxeng: On one of my Ulster tours I managed to visit Shorts to enquire whether they had any Pilots Notes for the Seamew. A kindly soul took me on a lengthy trek of the factory but it transpired that the company had recently had a clear out of the paperwork of all un-supported types. I asked the appropriate department specifically about the Seamew but nobody could remember if there were company notes for it or not. One person did say that he thought everything had been put on micro fiche before the originals were burned but said the company responsible for the micro fiche had yet to supply them. Naturally I pleaded to be notified if and when they were available but sadly never heard.
The Pioneer PN ( 1st edition November 1953) gives the following speeds all in knots.
Maximum for
Diving 160 (not shown as VNE for some reason)
Flaps lowered 60
T/O must have been a joy. 'At 20 kts the aircraft becomes airborne and can be climbed steeply at 35 kts'.
Blossy is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2019, 20:13
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Netherlands
Age: 54
Posts: 3,163
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Gossamer albatross
take off speed 7 mph
max speed 29 mph
ratio 4.14
(stall speed unknown?)
Self loading bear is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2019, 21:04
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Yes.
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Haha nice one.😁😁 👍
Dan_Brown is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2019, 21:41
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 189
Received 26 Likes on 5 Posts
Fieseler Storch not far off - 175 km/h (94 kt), stall 46 km/h (25 kt), about 3.8 to 1.
The Fieseler Fi 97 was even better - 245 km/h, 58 km/h, 4.2 to 1
Auster V just makes it, 113 kt, 28 kt, 4.04:1

Last edited by topgas; 27th Jun 2019 at 21:58.
topgas is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.