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When did airway colour naming end?

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When did airway colour naming end?

Old 7th Feb 2019, 14:08
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Disbanded in the sense that that particular name ceased. What happened to the Captain of the Queen's Flight? Does the sqn cdr hold that historic title of has it lapsed?
Apart from the '146s, I'm not sure what aircraft they have nowadays as they disposed of all the '125s about 6 years ago. They might still have a helicopter to transport government ministers but Royal Heli Flights are handled by the civilian operated the Royal Helicopter Flght based at RAF Odiham and in the case of multiple bookings, they sub contract to another approved helicopter operator.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 16:42
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Originally Posted by binbrook View Post
. I have a vague memory that we could go through airways at X000+500ft, but maybe that was only in emergency. Anyone out there got an old RAFAC?
I am pretty sure that was correct for a VFR transit. We used to request a procedural crossing. We used to request the airways crossing some 10 minutes in advance (30 miles in our case) and rarely we had to change level too. If we arrived early we had to orbit and if late reapply.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 17:39
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I am pretty sure that was correct for a VFR transit. We used to request a procedural crossing. We used to request the airways crossing some 10 minutes in advance (30 miles in our case) and rarely we had to change level too. If we arrived early we had to orbit and if late reapply.
Unless it was a Purple Airway.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 18:54
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PN,

In June 1968, I was in a Varsity that was ferrying a group of us from Binbrook back to Shawbury after we had delivered four Chipmunks for UBAS Summer Camp. We did an airways crossing en route. It sticks in my mind because of a minor disagreement about the time we entered the airway, between the radar controller (Midland Radar?) and the Varsity's navigator, who was using Gee for position fixing. I knew about Gee, but had no idea it was still being used.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 19:21
  #45 (permalink)  
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I42, Gee in the Varsity was a rapid fixing aid! Having installed the correct box for the chain in use you would fiddle around with the oscilloscope and using a n electronic upscale measure the time differencees .Having logged the readings you plotted them on the hyperbolic chart.

Properly you should now log the position on the hyperbolic chart before transferring the position to the plotting chart. Having now established your position, and considering previous positions you could work out the groundspeed. Using that and the position you could work out the ETA.

Quite simple really. You could also use the AP I to calculate a wind and then groundspeed.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 20:27
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Pontius,
You were kind enough to respond to my ACR7 query.
I recall we had Gee with the so called Universal Indicator (or some similar terminology) on the Valiant - I think it was Gee2ish but it was a long time ago -
Any info/recall ?
(Guilty of thread drift)
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 21:50
  #47 (permalink)  
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NRU, it depends.

The later model was the Mk3. It was easier to use. You rotated the knobs, can't remember much detail as I only used it a couple of times on the Meteor and the readings were presented as numbers.

The Vulcan also had the Mk3. It was SOP to switch it off after the climb and back on at TOP of descent before doing a Gee homing to overhead. In 1964 Gee was replaced with TACAN.

It is likely that the Valiant had Mk3. The control panel was roughly 6inch by 2inch compared with the laboratory size box of Gee 2.

I do know that the Valiant tankers had TACAN in 1964 as it was part of the AAR RV procedures.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 23:01
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What years was the Lichfield & Scunthorpe RVC's set up?

Also did military traffic departing Coningsby, Scampton,& Waddington have to fly through the Scunthorpe RVC, if for example they wanted to fly to Ottringham?
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 10:54
  #49 (permalink)  
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Glider, we would climb above 245 and had no need for the RVC. The RVCs were for traffic seeking a medium level transit rather than climbing into upper air. The Vulcans operated latterly from Cottesmore. Otttingham is a beacon on the airway so the Scunthorpe RVC didn't go there.I

Typically for the high level phases we invariably flew above 410 up to 490. Trying to thread a bombing run through civil traffic in the 30s was a nightmare.BBC

On recovery, under radar control we would be guided through the airways.

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 8th Feb 2019 at 12:56.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 14:22
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Glider90 & PN, possibly relevant to your posts - I don't know when it started,but certainly in 1982 onwards Airway Blue 1 (latterly Bravo 1 as previously discussed ), was not available to GAT from 5NM East of OTR to 5 West of DOGGER (later,DOGGA ) at FL140-FL160,as these levels were reserved for crossing military aircraft not under radar control .
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 16:37
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Originally Posted by binbrook View Post
I have a vague memory that we could go through airways at X000+500ft, but maybe that was only in emergency. Anyone out there got an old RAFAC?

I have an old RAF En Route Supplement (BINA) from 1983 and it confirms that procedure for use in an emergency when neither a radar nor procedural crossing could be obtained. The circumstances had to be reported to the Parent ATCC after landing.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 20:53
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Having just watched the 'In on the beam' film on the above 'Historic Videos' thread,it seems that I was wrong to assert that odd 500' levels were not used on Airways,as all the A/C in that seemed to be flying at such levels.This seems to make no sense that military A/C in an emergency were supposed to cross Airways at x000+500'.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 22:02
  #53 (permalink)  
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Ex82, not entirely. I am not sure but take Amber 1. Levels in use would be Odds Plus south and Evens Plus north. A VFR or IFR crosser would be at plus 500. On the Blue way it would be 000.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 09:09
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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PN
Gee in the Varsity was a rapid fixing aid!
Gee 2 about a 6 minute exercise except when pretend flying a "supersonic" Canberra in the D.R. sweat box where eventually your pencil was outpaced. However this seasoned one such that a 3 minute cycle was easy with Gee 3. In fact once I managed a 2 minute cycle for the length of England.

binbrook
​​​​​​​ AFAIR the upper limit of UK airways in the 50s was something like 12000ft, not that we had the nav kit to use them.
I thought it was 10 thou but I'll accept 12 but early '58 it became 15000ft'. With this came FLs and all the other gubbins upwards and above FL 290.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 11:48
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Pom Pax - that sounds right. I was on my first squadron. 6 minute fixing was the norm with Gee on Canberras but occasionally it went to 3 - getting near the tracker for GH perhaps? Limited aids was more leisurely and the whole squadron on one Malta detachment went pressure-pattern on a single heading from Dover to the corner of Sicily. All the navs had to do was plot our track.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 13:07
  #56 (permalink)  
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Three minute fixing, and no transferring from Gee to plotting chart, and no DRing was easy in the Meteor.

I think the procedures on the Varsity were designed to be awkward: various Gee Chain charts, a consol chart, the ERC, topo, and everything plotted on the 1:1m plotting chart. Not forgetting that every radio beacon etc that you planned to use had to be plotted too.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 15:19
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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the ERC ................. luxury!!!!!
Had to put that lot on the 1:1m , admittedly from a template.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 18:16
  #58 (permalink)  
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PP, I didn't say we could write on the ERC. We had to manually plot the lot, airways and all. Probably because the charts predated the airways 😀

Remember the Topos all had to be drawn up too. Luxury was covering the maps in fablon. We soon discovered that sticking the fablon on was not easy. A few bob and the flt planning clerks would draw up the topo and cover with fablon.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 11:53
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Another diagram of UK CAS in the 1950s:



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