BAF acquisition of British Airways Viscount 800s.
Interesting-flight planning to Nice when going to Palma. I believe Monarch might have done that much more recently ( but some years ago) when operating A321s to Ovda- planning the return to Brussels and then continuing to Luton when fuel was okay to do that.
Would such a practice be frowned on today?
Would such a practice be frowned on today?
Thread Starter
I guess Mike Keegan got quite a bargain. I wonder if BA had already made an attempt to sell the aircraft but there hadn't been any takers ? Good turn of events for any BA pilots approaching the 55-chop or those just beyond.
At the time 4-engined turboprops had little market, scheduled short-haul operators were no longer interested and the BAF sort of operation, of whom there were few in Europe was one of the few. The market for the larger and more costly to operate Vanguard and Electra had already fallen through, though the latter made an effective freighter.
An exception was Indonesia, mentioned above in the context of the ex-CAAC aircraft. A big country, this was because the government allowed independent domestic operators, but did not allow them to import jets, only state-owned Garuda could. As a result they were late operators of all three 4-engined turboprops, even the Vanguard, which all ran on some, several hours long, long-line hops along the length of the country. A lot of the Indonesian technical support came from Australia, who had long experience of both Viscount and Electra. However, if Bouraq, who got the ex-CAAC fleet, still had to buy such residual aircraft on HP, there was not a lot of money around there.
Propliner magazine had a couple of accounts of venturers to Indonesia into the 1990s who got some late rides on what were by then historic fleets, including even a chance air-to-air photograph from an Electra of a Vanguard, when they were both in the Hold at Jakarta. Mandala, Merpati, Bouraq and others were the operators. Alex Frater, in "Beyond the Blue Horizon", describes having been assailed by the various independent carrier touts when he approached the Garuda check in at Jakarta, with that valhalla, an IATA fully interchangeable ticket, who assured him that unlike their own carrier his onward Garuda flight was late, cancelled, overbooked and Bad Dinner. All at the same time, seemingly !
An exception was Indonesia, mentioned above in the context of the ex-CAAC aircraft. A big country, this was because the government allowed independent domestic operators, but did not allow them to import jets, only state-owned Garuda could. As a result they were late operators of all three 4-engined turboprops, even the Vanguard, which all ran on some, several hours long, long-line hops along the length of the country. A lot of the Indonesian technical support came from Australia, who had long experience of both Viscount and Electra. However, if Bouraq, who got the ex-CAAC fleet, still had to buy such residual aircraft on HP, there was not a lot of money around there.
Propliner magazine had a couple of accounts of venturers to Indonesia into the 1990s who got some late rides on what were by then historic fleets, including even a chance air-to-air photograph from an Electra of a Vanguard, when they were both in the Hold at Jakarta. Mandala, Merpati, Bouraq and others were the operators. Alex Frater, in "Beyond the Blue Horizon", describes having been assailed by the various independent carrier touts when he approached the Garuda check in at Jakarta, with that valhalla, an IATA fully interchangeable ticket, who assured him that unlike their own carrier his onward Garuda flight was late, cancelled, overbooked and Bad Dinner. All at the same time, seemingly !
Last edited by WHBM; 22nd Dec 2018 at 20:25.
Thread Starter
Fair point. There's only been a couple of four-engined aircraft in the short-haul category since the Viscount's heyday, the Dash 7 and the BAe 146/RJ and only one of those has props. If there are others, I can't remember them just now !
I think Merpati Nusantara, also in Indonesia, flew both Viscounts and Vanguards.
I think Merpati Nusantara, also in Indonesia, flew both Viscounts and Vanguards.
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C-CSZB being towed at ABZ, 1996, BWA livery by this time.
I remember the BAF operation at ABZ > LSI - at peak 3x Viscounts based, usually 2x blocks of flights M-F:
Flight Nos. 8501 > 8508; 8509 > 8516 (although 8515/6 was more oft than not canx or non-op
On particular busy periods (Christmas changeovers or upmanning) there was a 3rd block, Flight Nos. 8517 > 8522, even on occasions a further flight 8523/4.
Odd flight Nos. up to LSI; evens back to ABZ.
Those were the days!
I showed up at Southend, uttered a price per each, was laughed at and told the whole ex-BA purchase had been less.
I guess Mike Keegan got quite a bargain.
I have no idea if this is correct. Knowing Mike Keegan it's very plausible.
In the mid seventies Alidair had a contract to fly the Scottish Daily Express from Manchester to Lossiemouth with Viscounts every night. I flew with them sitting on the stacks of newspapers many times in 1975, and from Lossie to Aberdeen or Derby on the way down south.
Lossie was my first posting after trade training, as I came from the Portsmouth area Alidair, along with a shift schedule that gave me one week off in four, was a Godsend.
At least one of the aircraft was ex-Air Inter, the titles showed through the over painting.
I was working in the visiting aircraft flight and we would turn them around between Hangars 3 and 4, which was a bit tight for an aircraft of that size. Alidair had both 700 and 800 series aircraft, the ground power receptacle on the 700 series was just behind the plane of the propellers on the centre line of the belly, I didn't like going there, on the 800s it was in line with the trailing edge of the wing which was much better.
I've rambled on a bit but it's just memories.
Lossie was my first posting after trade training, as I came from the Portsmouth area Alidair, along with a shift schedule that gave me one week off in four, was a Godsend.
At least one of the aircraft was ex-Air Inter, the titles showed through the over painting.
I was working in the visiting aircraft flight and we would turn them around between Hangars 3 and 4, which was a bit tight for an aircraft of that size. Alidair had both 700 and 800 series aircraft, the ground power receptacle on the 700 series was just behind the plane of the propellers on the centre line of the belly, I didn't like going there, on the 800s it was in line with the trailing edge of the wing which was much better.
I've rambled on a bit but it's just memories.
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I've rambled on a bit but it's just memories.
In the mid seventies Alidair had a contract to fly the Scottish Daily Express from Manchester to Lossiemouth with Viscounts every night. I flew with them sitting on the stacks of newspapers many times in 1975, and from Lossie to Aberdeen or Derby on the way down south.
At least one of the aircraft was ex-Air Inter, the titles showed through the over painting ..... Alidair had both 700 and 800 series
At least one of the aircraft was ex-Air Inter, the titles showed through the over painting ..... Alidair had both 700 and 800 series
My first flight was in a Viscount, BFS-IOM. Years later I worked as a dispatcher and 6 nights a week we had a BAF Viscount deliver 7 tons of The Sun from SEN, then pick up 6 tons of live eels to go to AMS. Working with lots of older aircraft types, often freighters, you always new the Viscount would turn up. Very rarely went tech, unlike the Herald, which Air UK used on passenger schedules and Securicor parcels used on freight. I can remember the screeching darts, particularly when I forgot my ear defenders. I flew in one BFS-SEN on an empty positioning flight on the jump seat and we topped out about 27,000 ft.
Working in BFS in the 80s was a bit like a living museum - Vanguards, Argosy, DC3, Heron, Caravelle, Coronado, CL-44, Belfast, 707, Bristol Freighter...
Working in BFS in the 80s was a bit like a living museum - Vanguards, Argosy, DC3, Heron, Caravelle, Coronado, CL-44, Belfast, 707, Bristol Freighter...
My one and only Viscount flight was LHR-LHR, an airtest after we had removed and refitted a tailplane. The Captain added some stalls and an engine shutdown to add to the fun. 
Can anyone on here fill in any details of what was my parents' honeymoon?
They flew by Viscount from Edinburgh to London on 26th March 1961, returning on the 29th.
Would this have been into Croydon aerodrome? Which airline is it likely to have been? I dare say the reg is too much to hope for, but what about the aircraft mark? Any idea of the timetable?
Much obliged
Cooch
They flew by Viscount from Edinburgh to London on 26th March 1961, returning on the 29th.
Would this have been into Croydon aerodrome? Which airline is it likely to have been? I dare say the reg is too much to hope for, but what about the aircraft mark? Any idea of the timetable?
Much obliged
Cooch
Can anyone on here fill in any details of what was my parents' honeymoon?
They flew by Viscount from Edinburgh to London on 26th March 1961, returning on the 29th.
Would this have been into Croydon aerodrome? Which airline is it likely to have been? I dare say the reg is too much to hope for, but what about the aircraft mark? Any idea of the timetable?
They flew by Viscount from Edinburgh to London on 26th March 1961, returning on the 29th.
Would this have been into Croydon aerodrome? Which airline is it likely to have been? I dare say the reg is too much to hope for, but what about the aircraft mark? Any idea of the timetable?
Timetable ? That's an easy one. Fare 4 pounds 3 shillings each way off-peak :
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...d/be61d-01.jpg
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...d/be61d-05.jpg
Good effort WHBM, thank you
Very interesting and unexpected to note that they were operating from East Fortune not Turnhouse at that time. Actually, my parents dates slightly precede your timetable so I'll have to double check with them which airport they used. I see Turnhouse was closed that summer for redevelopment with East Fortune used as an alternate and it might just be that services were switched there upon commencement of your timetable on April 1st.
Wiki also advises me that a Viscount promptly had a landing accident at East Fortune that month, nobody hurt thankfully. Is there a simple answer as to what eventually befell the BEA airframes?
As an aside, whilst travelling through Zimbabwe a few years back, I happened to spot 2 Viscount fuselages apparently on display at the roadside in the small town of Gweru. Sadly didn't manage to stop. Anybody have any stories to add about those?
Cheers
Cooch
Very interesting and unexpected to note that they were operating from East Fortune not Turnhouse at that time. Actually, my parents dates slightly precede your timetable so I'll have to double check with them which airport they used. I see Turnhouse was closed that summer for redevelopment with East Fortune used as an alternate and it might just be that services were switched there upon commencement of your timetable on April 1st.
Wiki also advises me that a Viscount promptly had a landing accident at East Fortune that month, nobody hurt thankfully. Is there a simple answer as to what eventually befell the BEA airframes?
As an aside, whilst travelling through Zimbabwe a few years back, I happened to spot 2 Viscount fuselages apparently on display at the roadside in the small town of Gweru. Sadly didn't manage to stop. Anybody have any stories to add about those?
Cheers
Cooch
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I'd think it unlikely a Viscount would have been into Croydon at all let alone on a scheduled service; I would think the runway length would have been marginal for take off.
Could the Rhodesian Viscounts be the remains of the 2 aircraft shot down by the rebels in the Rhodesian conflict? I believe at least one of them managed to force-land and the survivors were then massacred by the rebels.
Luvley stuff fellas. Those who saw my offering on the Hamble thread will know that it provided great entertainment while I recover from the worst flu virus to hit Cyprus ! Much better now & even better for the Viscount thread. All the BKS/Northeast staff was pure nostalgia. My sense of humour not being liked by the Hamble Selection Board, didn't change me because at the BKS Sponsorship pre-lim interviews I was asked what BKS stood for. I replied ; " British Kite Service". This lot liked me although One Selector wished he had a quid for everytime he got that response.
Two of us out of 500 applicants started at OATS as BKS Cadets in Feb 1971. Hardly passed GFT1 and we were working for Northeast. Earmarked for Viscounts at LBA. We were rather busy trying to stay on the course but my info was that BKS and Cambrian were owned by BAS which, in turn was wholly owned by BEA. After graduation, we went off to Derby for the Rolls course and then to Heston for the Smith's Flight System on Link Trainers (five days of it). Uniforms were pure BEA but the wings were NE rather than BEA. Cambrian Cadets went to AST Perth but got the same BEA training thereafter.
I flew the 806X. Heaven only knows how I passed the Cadet Selection because someone would have asked me what was the difference between a 800 and 806 (?) And what was the X supposed to mean ? My sense of humour still fails for a cheery response but I recall noticing that the doors were square rather than round. My first Viscount flight was in a MEA machine fro Tehran to Beirut . That one had round doors and a nice NZ Captain who gave me a pair of ME pilot wings after a FD visit. Fourteen years later, NE Captains were much harder on me but I survived 800 hours to go on to the NE Trident 1e at LHR now painted in BA livery.
Pure pleasure to have flown the 806X. As I said in the Hamble note, glory days indeed.
Two of us out of 500 applicants started at OATS as BKS Cadets in Feb 1971. Hardly passed GFT1 and we were working for Northeast. Earmarked for Viscounts at LBA. We were rather busy trying to stay on the course but my info was that BKS and Cambrian were owned by BAS which, in turn was wholly owned by BEA. After graduation, we went off to Derby for the Rolls course and then to Heston for the Smith's Flight System on Link Trainers (five days of it). Uniforms were pure BEA but the wings were NE rather than BEA. Cambrian Cadets went to AST Perth but got the same BEA training thereafter.
I flew the 806X. Heaven only knows how I passed the Cadet Selection because someone would have asked me what was the difference between a 800 and 806 (?) And what was the X supposed to mean ? My sense of humour still fails for a cheery response but I recall noticing that the doors were square rather than round. My first Viscount flight was in a MEA machine fro Tehran to Beirut . That one had round doors and a nice NZ Captain who gave me a pair of ME pilot wings after a FD visit. Fourteen years later, NE Captains were much harder on me but I survived 800 hours to go on to the NE Trident 1e at LHR now painted in BA livery.
Pure pleasure to have flown the 806X. As I said in the Hamble note, glory days indeed.
Thread Starter
The 806X was a BEA quirk. These Viscounts donated their engines to the BEA Argosy fleet and the Viscounts got the Argosy engines, whereupon the aircraft were redesignated '806X'. Afterwards they probably weren't much different to the earlier 802 series. I don't know if the 806s ever got their original engines back.