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Vickers Viscount pilots, cabin crew and engineers.

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Vickers Viscount pilots, cabin crew and engineers.

Old 19th Feb 2018, 13:16
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Why did the Viscount have an elliptical tailfin ?
Genetics I suspect. if you look at the Wellington, Viking, Valetta and Varsity, you can trace the development. If it works, don't change it?
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 14:16
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Just noticed I've about 2k hrs on the 802; mostly Highlands & Islands.
Seemed to work OK but remember having to watch it for bank on touchdown due outboard prop ground clearance.
Lovely big pax cabin windows to look at Fingal's Cave en-route Benbecula.

Longest flight:- Glasgow>Orly 2:20
Recollect arriving home from Paris with a bottle of Beaujolais in one pocket and some smelly cheese in the other, or from Kirkwall with live lobsters at £3 each.

Originally Posted by surely not
I think the Tinnitus I have now is probably down to being too close to too many RR Darts on Viscounts, F27, HS748 and Gulfstream 1 over the years.
Ah, that's the reason, is it? Bas, also ex Argosy.

My first trip in a Viscount was following paying off my ship in Bremen in 1963. We'd plunged across the North Sea for a day after crossing the Atlantic and I remember thinking: "This is a much more civilized way to get around!"
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 15:03
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My first Viscount flight was as late as 1977 a Ba Regional day trip SOU-JER Then Three Years later a jump seat with GB Airways on G-BBVH to Tangier and back Whilst on an Air Cadet camp on the Rock. Despite my ambitions to become a commercial pilot Little did I know that I was to log Two and half thousand hours in the Viscount 802/6/7 and 808.

It was typically British, Solid with some quirky features. Its the only Aircraft I've known with Handbrake leavers on the control column, this feature being deleted on the 810 series. Then there was the wind-up timer to remind you to change the fuel feed from inners to outers.
On the 800 we had a lever under the windscreen to unlatch the wipers prior to use not dissimilar to those Lucas wiper motors on early land rovers.
The ex Ba aircraft were fitted with the Smiths flight system and SEP 2 Autopilot love it or loathe it.

The flight deck was shall we say bijou and looked as if the instrumentation and switches had haphazardly been tipped in from a wheelbarrow.
Weather radar tucked away on the LH sill and the generator panel tucked behind the co-pilot.

But what was it like to Operate?

With the distance of the Years, I recall the controls being well harmonised if rather heavy. Rudder authority was good making the aircraft adept in crosswind situations despite the lack of ground clearance on the outer propellers.
The last stage of flap100% was selected at the flare and I think most pilots tended to add a knot or two to the quoted VAT to achieve a smooth touchdown.
Despite having Four Darts whistling away the flight deck was quieter than the Herald.
Visibility was adequate from the small DV windows for the circling approach on to 15 at Sumburgh.
Pressurization was semi-manual requiring the switching of spill valves at various levels, having come to the aircraft in its later life they were operated at a reduced differential pressure limiting the maximum level to 170.Lots of big round glass instruments. The SEP 2 would track radials and fly an ILS to Cat 1 minima.

I see mention has been made of the Bd simulator.BAF purchased a redifon unit which for some strange reason was housed in High Wycombe. It was later set up at Southend, unfortunately, the 40's valve technology did not take kindly to the relocation and in the Summer they used to reach critical temperature resulting in some power settings and indications bearing no relation to pilot input.
It was, of course, a fixed unit with a camera moving over a model landscape for the visual element.
It did provide a good way of finding your way around the cockpit layout which varied between series hence a separate type rating for the 700 and 800.Crews did not fly both the 800 and 810 simultaneously in VF.
1179 Training was carried out on the aircraft including staling and simulated Two engined approaches for a P1 endorsement.

I do recall that the beast had a number of floor access panels for manual flap extension(I don't recall the handle all 4 foot of it being carried) and a manual outflow valve closing device that was operated in the event of ditching!
Inevitably all these features were buried under 4 tons of newspaper or parcel farce debris.

Passenger reaction was very favourable, especially when subbing for the scheduled ATP. Certainly, there were some unflattering initial comments about the ATR when it replaced the Viscount on the Shell contract.

It was sad to see members of the fleet wheeled on to the grass the airport perimeter having undergone spares recovery. More than one aircraft provided parts for the restoration of G-APIM at Brooklands which is now lovingly maintained by a dedicated group of volunteers. Its the only Viscount to have crossed the Thames by the tunnel!

The things I really remembered from my time on the type were crystal clear mornings heading out over Scotstown head, or the Night visual on to 24 at Southend rolling the wings level at 1000' on final.
Four Rolls Royce engines and a leather armchair to watch the world go by Happy days.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 15:26
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Originally Posted by WHBM
The Viscount was not just a short haul aircraft.
Conversely some UK sectors were ultra-short-haul. I flew in Viscounts from Liverpool in the 60s & 70s with successively British Eagle, Cambrian, BA and British Midland. One Cambrian flight to/from Heathrow in 1970 routed via Chester (Hawarden/Broughton). Unfortunately being February it was a night flight in both directions. Also Liverpool to Edinburgh involved Cambrian to Glasgow then another short hop with BEA to Edinburgh as an intermediate stop on the way to points further north.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 11:56
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All my Viscount experience was with Channel Airways before 1970 and involved hops from Southend to Southern France Perpignan as I recall, and Palma Majorca. I did not fly on them again until a flight back to LBA with BM which should have been DC9 but ended up with Viscount due to tech issue which would have been early 80,s.
Always struck me as being a gentleman,s A/C in that it did everything in an unhurried way - a view from this SLF anyway. Did some cockpit visits and I do agree about switch gear being scattered, it was like looking at an explosion in a boiled sweet shop as I recall. Also I once witnessed one do 5nr failed approaches on a still night at Perpignan before finally landing. Departing passengers looked very Green and one was sick on tarmac - you remember these details when you are 7 !

Cheers
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 13:25
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Considering how spacious the cabin was, the flight deck really was quite cramped.

I seem to recall the ground power socket being somewhere inconveniently close to the props on the belly, and ground crew having to inch along to extract it.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 15:01
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Originally Posted by Midland 331
I seem to recall the ground power socket being somewhere inconveniently close to the props on the belly, and ground crew having to inch along to extract it.
Sounds similar to the Il-18, where the GPU plugged in under the centre-section. As I recall, it was a slightly unnerving experience disconnecting it.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 15:33
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Spot on Midland 331, it was down to how long the power cable was as to whether the ground crew put the GPU to the front and had a shorter heave on the cable to gather it in and make sure you're clear of the props before leaving the safety of under the fuselage, or put it behind the wing, side on so that the propwash didn't blow the GPU over, and the ground crew were bathed in the hot exhaust fumes as the packed the heavy cable onto the GPU and drove clear.

The only aircraft I saw that had a worse position for the GPU lead was the Swearingen Metroliner which had the socket on the starboard engine nacelle midway between the props and the wing leading edge!! None of the engineers enjoyed this.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 15:42
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Looking through my Viscount photos I am reminded that if the GPU went in front of the wing it was usually parked in front by the nose so that the Flt Deck could see it and wouldn't start to move off stand with the GPU detached but still in the way!!

Hopefully I have attached a photo I took at LGW that shows this
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 16:50
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https://www.nfb.ca/film/routine_flight/
I hope this works. Great little film.
Luved the Viscount and Vanguard.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 18:38
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First ever flight was in an Viscount operated by the RAF at RRE Persore, it was a test bed for the Radar boffins, also had flights in their Hastings that operated alongside the Viscount never managed to get a flight in one of the Canberra's on their fleet.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 19:25
  #52 (permalink)  
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In the Northeast and BA days my father frequently used to fly between Leeds and Heathrow and also Amsterdam on the Viscounts. He too has described it as a gentleman's aeroplane. A Gill Air captain I once met also described the Boeing 727 as such. No coincidence that these are my two favourite aeroplanes.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 11:07
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Some of the later Viscounts had the ground power socket behind the wing on the left side of the fuselage. SOAF 501 and 502 were like that.
The batteries and power distribution was in the belly forward of the wing spar (G,H,J&K panels-sad that I still know). Most A/C had the socket near this equipment to save cable weight I suppose.

The 4 Voltage regulators were under the cabin floor at this location and setting them up so that they all shared the load equally could take an hour or more doing ground runs, with much shouting from the cockpit to adjust one or another regulator. Just when you thought you had got them all balanced, tightening the lock nuts would upset them all again.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 11:17
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Channel Airways

Also my favourite aircraft hence my log in.Many happy days handling Viscounts in Guernsey. Start up was interesting with GPU behind the wing. You would stand under fuselage behind wing until all 4 engines running then disconnet cable and walk under fuselage to take nose wheel chocks away (all without ear defenders). On 1 occasion when I was about 17 gave a big tug to disconnect cable aircraft went on to Bournemouth. An hour later Bournemouth ring to say who disconnected ground power as you took out aircraft electrics. On looking at GPU plug we found a couple of pins from aircraft. Was not popular, aircraft had to do battery starts for the rest of the day.
In Channel we used to get up to 84 in the 800 series where other companies str.etched to 78, could mean interesting time doing the loadsheet when a/c was full.
Shortest sectors flown Gci-Jer and Bhx-Ema whilst longest 4 hrs Ema-Bgo
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 11:47
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>You would stand under fuselage behind wing until all 4 engines running then disconnet cable and walk under fuselage to take nose wheel chocks away (all without ear defenders).

Ah! That was the manoeuvre I was trying to remember. Scary stuff.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 12:39
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Obviously a great aircraft, even the French bought them! Air France and Air Inter.

Anyone know the whereabouts of Pete Russell, ex TMAC CL 44 FO then BAF Viscount skipper.
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 04:51
  #57 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by surely not
Spot on Midland 331, it was down to how long the power cable was as to whether the ground crew put the GPU to the front and had a shorter heave on the cable to gather it in and make sure you're clear of the props before leaving the safety of under the fuselage, or put it behind the wing, side on so that the propwash didn't blow the GPU over, and the ground crew were bathed in the hot exhaust fumes as the packed the heavy cable onto the GPU and drove clear.

The only aircraft I saw that had a worse position for the GPU lead was the Swearingen Metroliner which had the socket on the starboard engine nacelle midway between the props and the wing leading edge!! None of the engineers enjoyed this.
Apologies for the slight digression here.

With regard to the ground power socket, from my one and only experience with a Devon that arrived unexpectedly at Valley one weekend, we had to plug the infamous trolley acc into a socket on the right hand side, under the cockpit....... and decidedly adjacent to the prop.

J/T Chips at the time was somewhat new and was thus "volunteered " for this task on departure despite offering his " thoughtful sentiments" as to why he wasn't overly enthused at the prospect.

The other memorable aspect was that the elderly driver underwent a personality and accent change overnight !.....Sat, arrived with a broad Yorkshire accent and all smiles and happy conversation, Sunday, Home Counties accent and demanding pompous demeanour.

Despite growing up near MAN and seeing / hearing the Viscount as a fact of life, plus the aftermath of the Shadow Moss Lane tragedy, ironically I never got to fly in or maintain them.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 22nd Feb 2018 at 09:27.
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 12:09
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I worked at Field Aircraft Services (FAS) EMA from 1973 and at that time they were involved in bringing the Viscount 814 series ex Lufthansa aircraft onto the UK register. FAS held CAA design approval and their design office produced numerous modifications for the BMA Viscount fleet.

FAS were also involved in re sparring a number of Viscounts and during such work the staff was much increased by the use of contractors. I recall one occasion when a hapless contractor fell from the wing of a Viscount in the hangar and broke his leg. The hangar manager was summoned to assess the situation and his instructions were, first to clock the unfortunate guy out and then to summon an ambulance to get him fixed up. Those were the days!
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 16:49
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Originally Posted by happybiker
Field Aircraft Services (FAS) EMA from 1973 and at that time they were involved in bringing the Viscount 814 series ex Lufthansa aircraft onto the UK register. FAS held CAA design approval and their design office produced numerous modifications for the BMA Viscount fleet.
At the same time in 1971-2 as the Lufthansa disposal, where BMA took a couple, Mike Bishop, BMA's head, apparently went to South Africa, where the SAA fleet of 7 were also up for sale, expecting to buy the best one. He had a bank draft in his pocket for as much as he was prepared to pay for it. Turned out that he was the only bidder and he picked up all 7, plus the SAA spares inventory - and apparently still had a bit left over for a couple of beers afterwards. Must have been well looked after, they lasted a lot longer in the BMA fleet than the ex-Lufthansa ones; they had possibly never been de-iced before.

Article here

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightP...20-%201318.PDF
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 17:06
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This a truly magic thread as it brings back all the happy memories of operating my first airline aircraft.

After a short service military career, I was working as an Instructor at one of the airline training schools. It didn’t take long to realise that my studes were taking up jobs that were paying a good bit more than I was earning !

After a bit of negotiation, I managed to avoid having to start on a Herald or an F27 and was put on a Viscount. As it carried more passengers, it paid better than the others !

I ended up with a few thousand hours on the aeroplane and it was the best training I could ever have had for my future career. My first command on it came after a mere four years.

In my opinion, the Viscount was one of the most reliable, easy to operate aeroplanes one could have chosen. There was stacks of power even at MTOW. If it was hot, just preselect the water meth.
The cockpit was indeed a bit cramped, dark and an ergonomic nightmare of analogue instruments. For night flying these were illuminated by red floods, not the backlit convenience of even an Apache or a Twin Comm.
However I still regard this as character-building stuff though ; not the fancy glass expectations of the current bunch of computer whizz-kids ! Nah, I don’t really mean that. Just jealous that that was all coming in as I approached retirement !

Another perspective was the attitude that, if conditions were getting a bit tedious, then you were expected to hand-fly the aeroplane; much smoother than using the auto pilot and indeed more responsive in the event of a bilious crosswind on a wet night into JER.
Hand flown approaches were also 'de rigeur' for places like IOM on a wet winter’s night in a SW gale onto 21, which was a bit short. Even then we would be stopped by the intersection. Outboard power was needed to turn onto the taxiway and then getting to the lee side of the piers was difficult ; this was a necessity in that you weren’t allowed to open the pax doors if the wind was in excess of 40 knots.
Oh, and I’ve just remembered from those wet nights how you could tell who was the Captain on a VC8 !
The two windscreen wiper motors were hydraulic and used to leak right onto your legs ! - the Captain’s right trouser leg and the FO’s left leg !

Yep, I think I learned a bit about flying from that old girl.

Last edited by Sleeve Wing; 22nd Feb 2018 at 17:15. Reason: another anecdote .....
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