British aircraft by profitability
British aircraft by profitability
Does anyone have any information about which British aircraft have had the greatest commercial success as measured by profitability to the maker?
Also of interest would be the data on profitability on the initial unit verse ongoing service / spares.
Also of interest would be the data on profitability on the initial unit verse ongoing service / spares.
I think you are on a lost cause with this as the data would not be available. Even the revenue from sales would be hard to assess, bearing in mind offsets, leases, trade-ins and commercial confidence.
As for cost, that is and was a matter of complex accountancy when it came/comes to determining which costs are allocated to what aeroplane - e.g. even when only one aeroplane type is being produced the R&D for the next one may be significant and there would be product support cost for the previous types.
There have been many claims but they are not necessarily anything but guesswork. e.g. it has been claimed that we made no money from the sale of DH Doves/Devons but made a good living from their product support.
As for cost, that is and was a matter of complex accountancy when it came/comes to determining which costs are allocated to what aeroplane - e.g. even when only one aeroplane type is being produced the R&D for the next one may be significant and there would be product support cost for the previous types.
There have been many claims but they are not necessarily anything but guesswork. e.g. it has been claimed that we made no money from the sale of DH Doves/Devons but made a good living from their product support.
Last edited by Allan Lupton; 7th Feb 2018 at 16:02.
I understood that normally no profit was normally made on the original sale of the aeroplane being sold at cost (or less) this coming ( hopefully ) over the pricing of spares etc. over its service life.
Even with claimed profits from sales of the Viscount, apparently it was a different story when the development costs of the Dart were also factored in.
Even with claimed profits from sales of the Viscount, apparently it was a different story when the development costs of the Dart were also factored in.
Considering the numbers built - and having no idea of accounting procedures in the 20s or 30s (or now actually) - I would guess one or more of the DH Moth series is a good bet. Not in hard cash by today's standards but as a percentage profit that is.
Profitable British airliners
just one -Viscount all the others barring 146 and spin offs and 1-11s which didnt lose that much or make much of a profit were unmitigated disasters
just one -Viscount all the others barring 146 and spin offs and 1-11s which didnt lose that much or make much of a profit were unmitigated disasters
Thanks for the thoughts / facts. Yes my thoughts were turned to this after the recent A380 order and I just wondered how we faired over the years.
Numbers wise I was musing over were Design/ development cost v revenues at list price. I think I'm right in saying that a TV program that is downloaded on YouTube suggested that BAe's 146 needed to sell circa 240 units to break even? I think on that basis the 146 would have been viewed as a sales success and I wondered if there was a view or data on other UK aircraft - civil or military would make a good comparison.
Numbers wise I was musing over were Design/ development cost v revenues at list price. I think I'm right in saying that a TV program that is downloaded on YouTube suggested that BAe's 146 needed to sell circa 240 units to break even? I think on that basis the 146 would have been viewed as a sales success and I wondered if there was a view or data on other UK aircraft - civil or military would make a good comparison.
The 1981 Nationwide TV series on the 146 that's on youtube has a lot of good stuff in it, mainly the significant people who tell us about it (e.g. Chief Designer Bob Grigg
), but opinions aired by presenters should be treated with some reserve.
Whilst a lot of BN-2 Islanders were made, the numbers weren't enough to keep Britten Norman afloat and several companies have kept the design going including the latest consortium at Lee-on-Solent.
Around 1280 have been sold over the 53 years since its first flight, which is around only 24 per annum.
Around 1280 have been sold over the 53 years since its first flight, which is around only 24 per annum.
I think I'm right in saying that a TV program that is downloaded on YouTube suggested that BAe's 146 needed to sell circa 240 units to break even? I think on that basis the 146 would have been viewed as a sales success and I wondered if there was a view or data on other UK aircraft - civil or military would make a good comparison.
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Quite properly... not in the public domain. Buyers do not wish to know that the price they are about to pay...causes a loss, thus imperilling long-term ownership/future asset value, or is nicely profitable, thus overpriced.
Is it sufficient to know that UK Aerospace industry is more profitable today, making bits and bobs, than ever when delivering complete aircraft? We, UK taxpayers, funded most Aero products, in part or in full, until very recently. Visibly, on Project Accounts, only Viscount yielded a profit to Treasury (£1.5Mn. Launch Aid, £3Mn. Levy yield). Corelli Barnett,Verdict of Peace,P609: “more profitable (if the taxpayer had invested in) plastic garden gnomes.”
So why, I hear you say, do Nations spend taxpayers' money on loss-making durables? Prestige, independence, commercial spin-off from high value-added technology...
This affliction is neither UK-centric, nor airliner-centric. Many/most manufacturers of complete aircraft have suffered financial pain.
Is it sufficient to know that UK Aerospace industry is more profitable today, making bits and bobs, than ever when delivering complete aircraft? We, UK taxpayers, funded most Aero products, in part or in full, until very recently. Visibly, on Project Accounts, only Viscount yielded a profit to Treasury (£1.5Mn. Launch Aid, £3Mn. Levy yield). Corelli Barnett,Verdict of Peace,P609: “more profitable (if the taxpayer had invested in) plastic garden gnomes.”
So why, I hear you say, do Nations spend taxpayers' money on loss-making durables? Prestige, independence, commercial spin-off from high value-added technology...
This affliction is neither UK-centric, nor airliner-centric. Many/most manufacturers of complete aircraft have suffered financial pain.