EI Carvair operations at MAN
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EI Carvair operations at MAN
When Aer Lingus operated the Carvair between MAN-DUB in the 1960s, I understood it was purely for mail/freight operations.
I was to curious to know if they also carried cars on the route?
Many thanks
Mark
I was to curious to know if they also carried cars on the route?
Many thanks
Mark
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Hi Mark
I believe the Aer Lingus Carvair car ferry routes were DUB to Liverpool, Bristol & Cherbourg plus Cork to Bristol. Night mail flights took place between
MAN & DUB, with MAN also featuring on the airline's cargo services flown previously by DC-3s. Maybe cars were sometimes carried as freight.
ATL-98
I believe the Aer Lingus Carvair car ferry routes were DUB to Liverpool, Bristol & Cherbourg plus Cork to Bristol. Night mail flights took place between
MAN & DUB, with MAN also featuring on the airline's cargo services flown previously by DC-3s. Maybe cars were sometimes carried as freight.
ATL-98
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The Carvair required a specialised piece of equipment known as a hi-lo (basically a scissor-lift platform), to lift the cars up to the level of the cabin floor. I'm not sure whether there was one at Manchester. I do recall the occasional new car being shipped out on the Car Ferry from Liverpool, usually a Roller or a Bentley from Crewe.
One dark night my mother was driving me home from some child event, when the car was lit up like daylight as we went past the old threshold of Southends 06. You could hear the popping and crackling, but not each other screaming, as the beast flew over us, wheels inches from the car roof. Luckily she regained her composure and we made it home in one piece. Many times I have landed on that same runway and I still vividly remember that night.
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I worked in the Cargo Section of Manchester Airport Agencies (the forerunner of Servisair) during the period in question and we were the handling agents for Aer Lingus.
There was a Carvair to Dublin almost every night of the week but I have no recollection of them carrying cars from MAN.
The load was usually mixed cargo which was assembled on small wooden pallets, up to 1000 kgs each, and placed on a metal slave pallet which was then lifted up to the aircraft nose by a 6000lb Conveyancer forklift truck owned and operated by Manchester Airport.
I think that the mail for Dublin was normally "Bulk-Loaded" (ie not on pallets) onto F27 or Viscount 800's, depending on how heavy the load was.
I seem to remember that the Carvairs had a payload of 7000 to 8000 kgs.
There was a Carvair to Dublin almost every night of the week but I have no recollection of them carrying cars from MAN.
The load was usually mixed cargo which was assembled on small wooden pallets, up to 1000 kgs each, and placed on a metal slave pallet which was then lifted up to the aircraft nose by a 6000lb Conveyancer forklift truck owned and operated by Manchester Airport.
I think that the mail for Dublin was normally "Bulk-Loaded" (ie not on pallets) onto F27 or Viscount 800's, depending on how heavy the load was.
I seem to remember that the Carvairs had a payload of 7000 to 8000 kgs.
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I forgot to say thet the Carvair pallets were not standard wooden pallets but crude sheets of 1/2" thick plywood with steel rings round the perimeter.
When BEA started operating Argosy 100s & 200s the pallets were "stressed" all aluminium and the regular joke was that once the empty pallets and Cargo Documents had been loaded onto the aircraft there was no payload left for the cargo.
Shortly afterwards BOAC were operating Boeing 707 freighters with "Brownline" Pallets which were 125" x 108" and made from some type of composite material with aluminim edges, you could load 3500kgs onto each pallet, greater that the total payload of a DC3 freighter.
The Boeing 727 & 737 used the same "Brownline" pallets and KLM & Swissairs DC 9 freighters also had the same type of pallets but 108" x 108" to fit into the narrower fuselage.
When BEA started operating Argosy 100s & 200s the pallets were "stressed" all aluminium and the regular joke was that once the empty pallets and Cargo Documents had been loaded onto the aircraft there was no payload left for the cargo.
Shortly afterwards BOAC were operating Boeing 707 freighters with "Brownline" Pallets which were 125" x 108" and made from some type of composite material with aluminim edges, you could load 3500kgs onto each pallet, greater that the total payload of a DC3 freighter.
The Boeing 727 & 737 used the same "Brownline" pallets and KLM & Swissairs DC 9 freighters also had the same type of pallets but 108" x 108" to fit into the narrower fuselage.
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I forgot to say thet the Carvair pallets were not standard wooden pallets but crude sheets of 1/2" thick plywood with steel rings round the perimeter.
When BEA started operating Argosy 100s & 200s the pallets were "stressed" all aluminium and the regular joke was that once the empty pallets and Cargo Documents had been loaded onto the aircraft there was no payload left for the cargo.
Shortly afterwards BOAC were operating Boeing 707 freighters with "Brownline" Pallets which were 125" x 108" and made from some type of composite material with aluminim edges, you could load 3500kgs onto each pallet, greater that the total payload of a DC3 freighter.
The Boeing 727 & 737 used the same "Brownline" pallets and KLM & Swissairs DC 9 freighters also had the same type of pallets but 108" x 108" to fit into the narrower fuselage.
When BEA started operating Argosy 100s & 200s the pallets were "stressed" all aluminium and the regular joke was that once the empty pallets and Cargo Documents had been loaded onto the aircraft there was no payload left for the cargo.
Shortly afterwards BOAC were operating Boeing 707 freighters with "Brownline" Pallets which were 125" x 108" and made from some type of composite material with aluminim edges, you could load 3500kgs onto each pallet, greater that the total payload of a DC3 freighter.
The Boeing 727 & 737 used the same "Brownline" pallets and KLM & Swissairs DC 9 freighters also had the same type of pallets but 108" x 108" to fit into the narrower fuselage.
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Correction to my previous posts.
The correct pallet sizes are/were:
Boeing 707 / 727 / 737 = 125" x 88"
Douglas DC-9 = 108" x 88"
Apologies, but it was over 50 years ago!
The correct pallet sizes are/were:
Boeing 707 / 727 / 737 = 125" x 88"
Douglas DC-9 = 108" x 88"
Apologies, but it was over 50 years ago!
The Aer Lingus Carvairs came in 1963-4, and were sold in early 1968.
Here are the cargo schedules for 1965, including several recollected above
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...65/ei65-16.jpg
and for 1966, quite a bit different
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...66/ei66-16.jpg
Unfortunately, although they put the cargo schedules in their timetable, they didn't put the car services in.
Here are the cargo schedules for 1965, including several recollected above
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...65/ei65-16.jpg
and for 1966, quite a bit different
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...66/ei66-16.jpg
Unfortunately, although they put the cargo schedules in their timetable, they didn't put the car services in.
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BAF at Southend, SSD!
Sadly I can only recall seeing Carvairs airborne a couple of times, one at low level over Purley (deep in Injun territory!) probably squeezing between the Gatwick and Heathrow zones and heading toward Biggin Hill and presumably Southend. The other arrived at Gatwick one afternoon and made a very nice change from 1-11s and the other regulars.
Sadly I can only recall seeing Carvairs airborne a couple of times, one at low level over Purley (deep in Injun territory!) probably squeezing between the Gatwick and Heathrow zones and heading toward Biggin Hill and presumably Southend. The other arrived at Gatwick one afternoon and made a very nice change from 1-11s and the other regulars.
Last edited by treadigraph; 12th Jan 2018 at 15:31. Reason: Errant apostrophe!
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Ah yes, BAF. I used to work for Burroughs (remember them?) in the 1970s and spent periods at their Southend training centre on various courses. I remember the Carvairs climbing out over the town. Big radial piston engined aeroplanes were not so rare back then so I paid them far less attention than I would now.
I used to work for Burroughs (remember them?) in the 1970s and spent periods at their Southend training centre on various courses. I remember the Carvairs climbing out over the town. Big radial piston engined aeroplanes were not so rare back then so I paid them far less attention than I would now.
There were an astounding range of high jinks which those of us on the graduate trainee programme got up to, something for another time though ...
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