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Interviews with D P Davies on certificating aircraft

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Interviews with D P Davies on certificating aircraft

Old 9th Dec 2017, 12:04
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Interviews with D P Davies on certificating aircraft

Anyone interested in aircraft handling qualities will really enjoy listening to these podcasts. The Royal Aeronautical Society has made available a number of extended interviews with influential aviation people, and the first ones I have listened to are with D. P. Davies, the ARB/CAA certification test pilot. If you have ever met him you will know he calls a spade a spade! His views are direct to say the least.

The first podcast covers his career during WW2 as a Royal Navy Pilot.
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/aud...ing-the-1940s/

The second covers his experiences during the certification of a number of types during which he recounts some very interesting experiences and observations on several aircraft; the HP Hermes, the Vickers Viscount (including two inadvertent spins), the Britannia (another spin during stall testing), the Brabazon (during which he enjoyed a sit-down lunch during a test flight), arguments with chief designers about correcting handling deficiencies (elevator feel and wing leading edge shape on the Comet 1, and directional control on the 707). He recounts all these issues in his typical forthright manner.
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/aud...nnia-brabazon/

The third starts with the 747 which vastly impressed him (but listen to his comments on the clean stall buffet which I can vouch for), then he describes the various T-tail aircraft (Trident, VC10, BAC 1-11, DC-9 and 727) and the deep stall. Finally he finishes with a very robust view on management responsibility (which I also agree with).
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/aud...he-boeing-727/

The fourth and final podcast covers Concorde and the British V-bombers. He is critical of various aspects of the V-bombers but is full of praise for Concorde.
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/aud...the-v-bombers/

Last edited by Bergerie1; 9th Dec 2017 at 12:47.
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 19:26
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Bergerie1,

What a find! Just listened to the first one and am hooked. DPD has been a hero of mine since I first read his book in the mid 70s. Great to be able to put a voice to the face on the fly leaf. May get time to get another one in before pick-up.

Many thanks!
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 23:05
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Bergerie1, sincere thanks, spent much of the afternoon listening.
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Old 10th Dec 2017, 04:14
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Many thanks for the links. This will give me plenty to listen to on the bus journeys to work.
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Old 10th Dec 2017, 08:04
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Originally Posted by Bergerie1 View Post

The third starts with the 747 which vastly impressed him
When I was a lot younger, interested in aviation but a very nervous flyer, I read an early edition of Flying the Big Jets. Having got used to the ominous phrase "There is no point in further analysis of this case," it was hugely reassuring to come to his account of the 747, the subtext of which was how pleased he was to come to an aeroplane that wasn't thinking of ways to kill you.
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Old 10th Dec 2017, 12:45
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@bergerie

thank you for putting this in tech log too i wouldn't have looked here

now for some technical trouble: the links in the post in techlog do not work (you just copied your post which does not work because links are not displayed completely).

may i suggest you edit your tech log post and add a link to this thread?

if you would rather have exactly the same post as here then you would need to go into the edit mode on your post in this thread then copy everything in the text box (no need to save this edit).
now that you have everything including the complete links you can paste that in the other post

regards
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Old 10th Dec 2017, 13:23
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In case anybody is unaware this is part of a collection that the RAeS is steadily expanding. I downloaded a load a little while ago and haven't actually got to Davies yet, but have thoroughly enjoyed several others. I just finished a 2-parter with John Morton on testing early British and American helicopters, and particularly found Harald Penrose fascinating on his recollection of knowing early British aviation pioneers, and took some interesting technical lessons from Keith Dennison on the eGo.

https://www.aerosociety.com/events/c...audio-archive/

An interview with Barnes Wallis has just appeared in the last few weeks, which I've not got to, but fully expect it to be absolutely fascinating too !

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Old 10th Dec 2017, 13:26
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wiedehopf, Thanks, but I tried and can't access the post.
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Old 10th Dec 2017, 18:42
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Originally Posted by Bergerie1 View Post
wiedehopf, Thanks, but I tried and can't access the post.
I'd suggest clicking on the "Report Post" icon and leaving a message for the mods.
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 05:49
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Thankyou very much!
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 03:14
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Brilliant, a fascinating insight into
some of the most incredible aircraft
ever made and an extraordinary career
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 14:56
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IGh,

Thanks for those links, the early 707s certainly had their problems. Perhaps I shouldn't be, but I am very surprised at the way Boeing and the FAA ignored the directional control problems until Davies acted.
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 11:39
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Who was conducting the interviews ?
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 12:31
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Originally Posted by stilton View Post
Who was conducting the interviews ?
On each link in post #1 it states:-

"The interview was conducted by Rodney Giesler in 1992 and edited by Mike Stanberry FRAeS."
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Old 17th Dec 2017, 18:56
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Interesting to hear DPD's observations about deep stall probs on the T-tails. He recalled incidents when aircraft without stick pushers pancaked in after inability to recover. I've often wondered whether recovery would be possible by rolling to 90 degrees bank (assuming residual roll control available) and yawing the nose down to build airspeed and thereby escape from the stall regime. Presumably there must be a flaw in this reasoning otherwise the pilots involved would have tried it.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 02:43
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Interesting comments about the 707. I've flown them with and without the proper yaw damper. The one without nobody would take above 30,ooo ft. Tex Johnson in his book where he talks about the airplane in it's early days tells some scary stories.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 06:56
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Folks,
At the risk of a bit of controversy, and having flown B707-300 and -320 modified as required to be UK registered, (total about 8000 h on various versions, on various registers) versus the FAA certified aeroplane, it is my opinion that the ARB required mods. were overall detrimental to the operation of the aircraft.
I think we all acknowledge the B707 (and DC-8) had shortcomings, and aircraft design advanced by leaps and bounds over the period in question, '50s through the -80s, but the demanded changes for the B707 were, as far as I am concerned, largely a safety minus.
We should also acknowledge that aircraft certification standards have made great strides since the original SFAR 422b.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 07:12
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How so a safety minus LeadSled?
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 07:54
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LeadSled,

Obviously I am biased in favour of DPD. But you have to remember that what he is looking for is to make the aircraft safe for a below average pilot on a bad day in bad weather and facing an unexpected engine failure. While I am sure the original aircraft was perfectly flyable in all normal circumstances I do not believe it wise to permit such high Vmcg, Vmca and rudder loads.

What do you think?
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 09:53
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Folks,
At the risk of a bit of controversy, and having flown B707-300 and -320 modified as required to be UK registered, (total about 8000 h on various versions, on various registers) versus the FAA certified aeroplane, it is my opinion that the ARB required mods. were overall detrimental to the operation of the aircraft.
Excerpt from Tex Johnston 'Jet age Test Pilot'

During the second flight of the Dash80 we ran into rough air while doing stability and control work at 2,000ft ,gear and flaps down,speed below 200mph.Again I noted the Significant tendancy to Dutch Roll.In my test report I recommended additional attention to directional stability.
Directional stability was eventually improved by using the ventral fin and/or larger Fin (vert stabilizer).But it is clear even from the Dash 80 2nd flight that directional stability was marginal at best - Johnston had hoped that good training would suffice but he did realise after the Braniff 707 training accident (plus his own observations with other airlines problems) that aircraft modifications were essential and he did not pull any punches with Boeing about the subject.

From a safety point of view it had become clear that directional stability improvements were essential for the 707 so not sure how that could be detrimental ?
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