Merlin Bf-109
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Merlin Bf-109
Just been reading a paper which suggested, or hinted, that a Bf-109 was re-engined with a Merlin for test purposes during the war. Not heard of it previously, anyone with info?
Not referring to the later Buchon.
Not referring to the later Buchon.
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Never heard that one, but there is a pic out there of a captured Spitfire with DB605 installed.
Prototypes[edit]
Messerschmitt Bf 109 V1
A drawing of the V1 prototype
Design work on Messerschmitt Project Number P.1034 began in March 1934, just three weeks after the development contract was awarded. The basic mock-up was completed by May, and a more detailed design mock-up was ready by January 1935. The RLM designated the design as type "Bf 109," the next available from a block of numbers assigned to BFW.[6]
The first prototype (Versuchsflugzeug 1 or V1), with civilian registration D-IABI, was completed by May 1935, but the new German engines were not yet ready. In order to get the "R III" designs into the air, the RLM acquired four Rolls-Royce Kestrel VI engines by trading Rolls-Royce a Heinkel He 70 Blitz for use as an engine test-bed.[nb 2] Messerschmitt received two of these engines and adapted the engine mounts of V1 to take the V-12 engine upright. V1 made its maiden flight at the end of May 1935 at the airfield located in the southernmost Augsburg neighborhood of Haunstetten, piloted by Hans-Dietrich "Bubi" Knoetzsch. After four months of flight testing, the aircraft was delivered in September to the Luftwaffe's central test centre at the Erprobungsstelle Rechlin to take part in the design competition.
In 1935, the first Jumo engines became available so V2 was completed in October using the 449 kW (600 hp) Jumo 210A engine. V3 followed, the first to be mounted with guns, but it did not fly until May 1936 due to a delay in procuring another Jumo 210 engine.
Messerschmitt Bf 109 V1
A drawing of the V1 prototype
Design work on Messerschmitt Project Number P.1034 began in March 1934, just three weeks after the development contract was awarded. The basic mock-up was completed by May, and a more detailed design mock-up was ready by January 1935. The RLM designated the design as type "Bf 109," the next available from a block of numbers assigned to BFW.[6]
The first prototype (Versuchsflugzeug 1 or V1), with civilian registration D-IABI, was completed by May 1935, but the new German engines were not yet ready. In order to get the "R III" designs into the air, the RLM acquired four Rolls-Royce Kestrel VI engines by trading Rolls-Royce a Heinkel He 70 Blitz for use as an engine test-bed.[nb 2] Messerschmitt received two of these engines and adapted the engine mounts of V1 to take the V-12 engine upright. V1 made its maiden flight at the end of May 1935 at the airfield located in the southernmost Augsburg neighborhood of Haunstetten, piloted by Hans-Dietrich "Bubi" Knoetzsch. After four months of flight testing, the aircraft was delivered in September to the Luftwaffe's central test centre at the Erprobungsstelle Rechlin to take part in the design competition.
In 1935, the first Jumo engines became available so V2 was completed in October using the 449 kW (600 hp) Jumo 210A engine. V3 followed, the first to be mounted with guns, but it did not fly until May 1936 due to a delay in procuring another Jumo 210 engine.
Yes. Rolls used it as an engine test bed. Remarkably fast machine.
In a letter to Heinkel, written after seeing the aircraft perform with the Rolls Royce Kestrel engine fitted, R. J. Mitchell said:
We, at Supermarine Aviation, were particularly impressed, since we have been unable to achieve such smooth lines in the aircraft that we entered for the Schneider Trophy Races....
In addition to this, we recently investigated the effect that installing certain new British fighter engines would have on the He 70, We were dismayed to find that your new aircraft, despite its larger measurements, is appreciably faster than our fighters. It is indeed a triumph.
In a letter to Heinkel, written after seeing the aircraft perform with the Rolls Royce Kestrel engine fitted, R. J. Mitchell said:
We, at Supermarine Aviation, were particularly impressed, since we have been unable to achieve such smooth lines in the aircraft that we entered for the Schneider Trophy Races....
In addition to this, we recently investigated the effect that installing certain new British fighter engines would have on the He 70, We were dismayed to find that your new aircraft, despite its larger measurements, is appreciably faster than our fighters. It is indeed a triumph.
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I'm not sure where I saw it but the Heinkel's elliptical wing is credited with being the source of the Spitfire's elegant planform - certainly the older fixed gear "Spitfire" prototype didn't have it!
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the Heinkel's elliptical wing is credited with being the source of the Spitfire's elegant planform
Beverley Shenstone, RJ Mitchell's aerodynamic advisor denied that the Spitfire wing was copied from the He 70. Shenstone said:
It has been suggested that we at Supermarine had cribbed the wing shape from that of the He 70 transport. This was not so. The elliptical wing had been used on other aircraft and its advantages were well known. Our wing was much thinner than that of the Heinkel and had a quite different section. In any case it would have been simply asking for trouble to have copied a wing shape from an aircraft designed for an entirely different purpose.
Shenstone said that the He 70's influence on the Spitfire design was limited to use as a benchmark for aerodynamic smoothness.
I recall from many years ago a photo in a book, possibly William Greens "Warplanes of the Third Reich" where in the '109 section, there was a black and white photo of a dark coloured '109 fitted with a Merlin. The spinner was lower than on the DB powered '109s and the cowling had a marked droop along its top surface. It looked ugly compared to the DB powered version.
I may be wrong as it was close to 40 years ago when I admired the book and the aircraft in my high school library. Perhaps if someone has the book, they could check for the photo that I recall?
I may be wrong as it was close to 40 years ago when I admired the book and the aircraft in my high school library. Perhaps if someone has the book, they could check for the photo that I recall?
In my case it's 50 years+ since I saw the book but I'm pretty sure the picture you saw was the Spitfire with the DB engine.
As the Merlin is upright and the DB is inverted, the reduction gear means the spinner has to be lower on the DB, not the other way round.
See the Buchon for an instant example.
Edit: Google EN830. I'm sure the picture that comes up in at least the first few links is the one in the book.
I wouldn't have remembered the title but I'm pretty sure you're right about the author. We had several of his books in my school library too.
As the Merlin is upright and the DB is inverted, the reduction gear means the spinner has to be lower on the DB, not the other way round.
See the Buchon for an instant example.
Edit: Google EN830. I'm sure the picture that comes up in at least the first few links is the one in the book.
I wouldn't have remembered the title but I'm pretty sure you're right about the author. We had several of his books in my school library too.
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Off a tangent from Merlins, but one early Bf 109 prototype was converted in 1938 with a P&W R1830.
Pprune won't let me link to an image, but search for "Bf 109 v21 radial"
Allegedly there was also a later conversion of a 109F with a BMW 801 radial but it's hard to separate fact from fiction there.
Pprune won't let me link to an image, but search for "Bf 109 v21 radial"
Allegedly there was also a later conversion of a 109F with a BMW 801 radial but it's hard to separate fact from fiction there.
I've just had a look through Warplanes of the Third Reich, as well as the Harleyford Me 109 A famous German Fighter. Neither has the photograph the OP mentioned.
However, Harleyford does mention that th '109 prototype flew with a Rolls-Royce Kestrel engine. In addition, pictures of early 109's (B and C models) had a large radiator bath under the nose, so perhaps these might be why the OP thought of the Merlin?
Hope this helps a bit
However, Harleyford does mention that th '109 prototype flew with a Rolls-Royce Kestrel engine. In addition, pictures of early 109's (B and C models) had a large radiator bath under the nose, so perhaps these might be why the OP thought of the Merlin?
Hope this helps a bit
The OP has confirmed it was a Spitfire - EN830 to be exact - and not a 109.
We almost certainly saw copies of the same book. I'm still pretty confident about the author but after all this time I've no idea of the title.
I can guarantee it wasn't the Harleyford book about the 109. The Spitfire one was the only one I'd ever seen until three or four years ago when I picked up the one about the Lancaster in a charity shop a few minutes after it was donated.
I'd never heard of it but that really doesn't look right.
Via one of the search links, it seems the one with the BMW 801 was the 109 X.
We almost certainly saw copies of the same book. I'm still pretty confident about the author but after all this time I've no idea of the title.
I can guarantee it wasn't the Harleyford book about the 109. The Spitfire one was the only one I'd ever seen until three or four years ago when I picked up the one about the Lancaster in a charity shop a few minutes after it was donated.
Off a tangent from Merlins, but one early Bf 109 prototype was converted in 1938 with a P&W R1830.
Pprune won't let me link to an image, but search for "Bf 109 v21 radial"
Allegedly there was also a later conversion of a 109F with a BMW 801 radial but it's hard to separate fact from fiction there.
Pprune won't let me link to an image, but search for "Bf 109 v21 radial"
Allegedly there was also a later conversion of a 109F with a BMW 801 radial but it's hard to separate fact from fiction there.
Via one of the search links, it seems the one with the BMW 801 was the 109 X.
Thread Starter
From Wiki
A photo
https://web.archive.org/web/20071213...otonummer=4262
The F-82 clone, Bf 109Z-1, and 109X.
Bf 109X
After the success of the demonstration at the meeting of Zürich in 1937, Udet was receptive to the idea of developing an export version of the Bf 109 but with a different engine than the DB 601. The engine chosen was the P&W "Twin Wasp" SC-G of 1200 hp. The Messerschmitt company received a contract from RLM/LC on 13 June 1938 to fit the P&W Twin Wasp on the Bf 109 V21 (21st prototype) Werknummer 1770 (D-IFKQ). Even the maiden flight date is not known; it is established that Hermann Wurster flew it at Augsburg on 17 August 1939. In September 1940 it was part of the DVL (Deutsche Versuchsanstalt für Luftfahrt) at Brauschweig-Völkenrode with the Stammkennzeichen code KB+II. Its end is not known.
As the BMW 801 radial engine became available, a Bf 109F, Werknummer 5608, callsign D-ITXP was converted with a BMW 801 A-0. This aircraft became a prototype for the Bf 109X. The fuselage had a wider cross-section, and a new canopy was fitted. The wing tips were akin to that of the Bf 109E. The prototype was first flown by Flugkapitän Fritz Wendel on 2 September 1940, and the test flights continued despite troubles with the BMW 801A powerplant. Development was stopped in early 1942.
After the success of the demonstration at the meeting of Zürich in 1937, Udet was receptive to the idea of developing an export version of the Bf 109 but with a different engine than the DB 601. The engine chosen was the P&W "Twin Wasp" SC-G of 1200 hp. The Messerschmitt company received a contract from RLM/LC on 13 June 1938 to fit the P&W Twin Wasp on the Bf 109 V21 (21st prototype) Werknummer 1770 (D-IFKQ). Even the maiden flight date is not known; it is established that Hermann Wurster flew it at Augsburg on 17 August 1939. In September 1940 it was part of the DVL (Deutsche Versuchsanstalt für Luftfahrt) at Brauschweig-Völkenrode with the Stammkennzeichen code KB+II. Its end is not known.
As the BMW 801 radial engine became available, a Bf 109F, Werknummer 5608, callsign D-ITXP was converted with a BMW 801 A-0. This aircraft became a prototype for the Bf 109X. The fuselage had a wider cross-section, and a new canopy was fitted. The wing tips were akin to that of the Bf 109E. The prototype was first flown by Flugkapitän Fritz Wendel on 2 September 1940, and the test flights continued despite troubles with the BMW 801A powerplant. Development was stopped in early 1942.
https://web.archive.org/web/20071213...otonummer=4262
The F-82 clone, Bf 109Z-1, and 109X.