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New theory, DB Cooper

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Old 15th Jan 2017, 00:27
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New theory, DB Cooper

Amateur Scientists Have Intriguing DB Cooper Theory
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 00:35
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Here's the website of the 'sleuths':

citizensleuths.com
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 01:28
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What's the most realistic thing that could have happened to DB cooper ?
Death upon reaching the ground or shortly thereafter ? Due to inability to survive in a hostile environment and/or poor parachuting equipment provided by the authorities ?
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 01:58
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Well, a Filipino tried a copycat hijacking back in Y2K with a homemade parachute with the expected results:

The hijacker was armed with a grenade and a handgun and hid behind a blue ski mask. He initially ordered the plane's pilot to return to Davao City from where the Airbus 330 with registry number F-OHZN took off at about 2 p.m. yesterday.

The pilot refused, however, saying the plane did not have enough fuel for a
return trip.

PAL spokesman Rolando Estabillo said the plane was depressurized while circling 13 miles from Manila to permit the hijacker to jump at 6,000 feet from the plane's door 14 located near the jet's left rear tail.
The plane was under the command of, you guessed it, Captain Geronimo:

The plane's co-pilot Carlos Neri said the hijacker was able to enter the cockpit by threatening to shoot a flight attendant if command pilot Capt. Emmanuel Geronimo would not open the door.
Hijacker jumps off PAL jet after robbery | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Some of the accounts had the hijacker given a power assist out the door by a flight attendant ŕ la Harrison Ford.

A couple of days later the hijacker was found but, perhaps predictably, the money was missing:

Hijacker Dies After Makeshift Parachute Fails

May 26, 2000|From Associated Press

MANILA — The body has been found of a man who tried to hijack a Philippine Airlines jet with 291 people on board, then bailed out at 6,000 feet wearing a homemade parachute, authorities said today.

Soldiers recovered the body of Augusto Lakandula about 40 miles east of Manila in a heavily forested area after residents reported seeing a parachute landing Thursday afternoon, a military official said.

The improvised parachute was with Lakandula but not the money he took from the others aboard the plane, the official said. Lakandula was identified through his seat number on the plane.

Officials theorized that the parachute opened after the leap from the Airbus 330, then failed.
Hijacker Dies After Makeshift Parachute Fails - latimes

The 727 in the D.B. Cooper hijacking apparently eventually went to Key Airlines as N29KA to fly the Janet shuttle between Las Vegas, Area 51 and other points of interest.
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 02:29
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I like to think DB Cooper made it successfully to a tropical Caribbean Island with the loot, whereby he enjoyed the fruits of his ill-gotten spoils and loved every minute of it, relishing the fact that he got away successfully with the most incredible hijacking and robbery in the history of the world, and defeated the efforts of every crime-fighting organisation in America to find him.

The only problem is, he couldn't tell anybody - but being the secretive guy he was, I have little doubt he relished keeping that secret as well.
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 04:02
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We jumped in Florida in 1977 at the Z-Hills boogie, there were over a hundred ten man teams competing.
One of the skydive teams called itself " DB Cooper and the All Stars ".
The next day the FBI was walking around the dropzone asking for any information .
That really cracked everyone up . . .
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 05:27
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Onetrack, the problem with your theory is that the Feds recorded all the serial numbers of the money. With the notable exception of a single bundle of bills that was discovered along the Columbia river years later, none of the money has ever showed up.


Given the difficulties of jumping at night over a remote part of forested terrain, I remain of the opinion DB is a jumble of bones distributed by the wildlife in some remote part of southwestern Washington state...
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 08:28
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One thing to remember is that the hijacker was emphatically not called "D B Cooper". When he bought the ticket at the counter he called himself "Dan Cooper" but wasn't asked for ID as was normal then. When the FBI started investigating they found a known criminal in the area whose name was DB Cooper but he was interviewed and cleared.

In the rush to print, a reporter transposed the two names he had heard from the FBI and thus the perpetrator was christened DB Cooper and an urban myth was born...........
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 08:56
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What I find the most amazing in this story is that 45 years later people still spend so much energy and time in finding a answer . The fact the money never really resurfaced would be an indication that the guy did not make it , or did they stopped looking for the banknotes after, say, 2-3 years ?
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 09:29
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How often does paper money in circulations make it back to some point where serial numbers are checked? Genuinely curious.
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 09:36
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What is even more fascinating is the number of copycat attempts (15 according to wikipedia), some more successful than others but if they didn't die in the process they were eventually caught.

Methinks our man Cooper either landed inside the Mt St Helens caldera, or was on the 727 which landed with the rear stairwell extended and absconded before the plane stopped (and resumed his normal day job).

But really, jump out of an airliner, in pitch black, with rain, no goggles, no helmet, alcohol affected and limited parachuting experience, then the outcome is quite predictable. Not even experienced paratroopers will jump in those conditions.

Last edited by cattletruck; 15th Jan 2017 at 10:17. Reason: Wrong volcano
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 10:00
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or was on the 727 which landed with the rear stairwell extended and absconded before the plane stopped
I think as soon as you stand on of those stairs you would be sucked out. No way to hang and hide I would say. at that speed. ..Someone who actually parachute jumped out of military ramp in the back of an aircrfat can maybe confirm .
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 15:09
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What's the most realistic thing that could have happened to DB cooper ?
Death upon reaching the ground or shortly thereafter ? Due to inability to survive in a hostile environment and/or poor parachuting equipment provided by the authorities ?
IIRC, Cooper demanded two parachutes and said he was going to force one of the stewardesses to use one of them, forestalling any funny business with the equipment.
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 18:02
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Originally Posted by PersonFromPorlock
IIRC, Cooper demanded two parachutes and said he was going to force one of the stewardesses to use one of them, forestalling any funny business with the equipment.
I'm not very knowledgeable about parachutes but I know some folks here are. These are some of the accounts of the parachutes involved in the hijacking:

Acquiring the parachutes was a lot harder than collecting the $200,000. Tacoma’s McChord Air Force Base offered to provide the parachutes but Cooper rejected this offer. He wanted civilian parachutes with user-operated ripcords, not military-issued ones. Seattle cops eventually contacted the owner of a skydiving school. His school was closed but they persuaded him to sell them four parachutes. When the officers had the parachutes, they hurried to the Seattle-Tacoma Airport.

Cooper’s hijacking note did not directly explain his plan to skydive from the plane but his demands led officials to that assumption. Since he had asked for an extra parachute, they assumed he planned to take a passenger or crew member with him as an airborne hostage. They thought about using dummy parachutes for the exchange with Cooper but they couldn’t risk the life of a civilian.
D.B. Cooper - Crime Museum

Two of the parachutes, both chest-mounted reserve chutes, were from Issaquah Skyport, which was owned by Linn Emirch, and the two main backpack parachutes were provided by FBI Special Agent Harold Campbell said in Las Vegas, Nevada, that one of two chutes found onboard the Boeing 727 when it landed without the hijacker in Reno, Nevada, had been opened. But, the supplier of four parachutes delivered to the hijacker revealed the following night that one of the reserve chutes was a ground training model that could not have opened.

Cossey said he had packed the other three chutes and was sure they were functional - the chest pack used as the reserve could not have been fastened on the main parachute harness because it lacked D-rings, and had been delivered to the hijacker at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport only by mistake., an FAA Master Parachute Rigger and parachuting instructor, from his home.

FBI Special Agent Harold Campbell said in Las Vegas, Nevada, that one of two chutes found onboard the Boeing 727 when it landed without the hijacker in Reno, Nevada, had been opened. But, the supplier of four parachutes delivered to the hijacker revealed the following night that one of the reserve chutes was a ground training model that could not have opened.

Cossey said he had packed the other three chutes and was sure they were functional - the chest pack used as the reserve could not have been fastened on the main parachute harness because it lacked D-rings, and had been delivered to the hijacker at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport only by mistake.
D B Cooper's Jump

The parachutes provided to the skyjacker came from an Issaquah skydive center that had recently purchased them from Cossey. The one Cooper apparently used was a military-issue NB6, nylon, 28-foot with a conical canopy.

Over the decades, as parachutes were sometimes discovered in the area of Cooper's jump, the FBI turned to Cossey to ask if they were the real thing.

"They keep bringing me garbage," Cossey told The Associated Press in 2008, after the FBI brought him a silk parachute discovered by children playing at a recently graded road in Southwest Washington. "Every time they find squat, they bring it out and open their trunk and say, 'Is that it?' and I say, 'Nope, go away.' Then a few years later they come back."

That didn't keep Cossey from having fun at the expense of reporters who covered that discovery. He told some who happened to call him on April Fools' Day that year that the chute was, in fact, Cooper's.

One reporter called him back and angrily said he could get fired for writing a false story, Cossey said. Another said the newsroom was amused by the prank.
As indicated in the link headline below, Cossey's body was found in his home in 2013.

Body found in Washington home of D.B. Cooper parachute packer | OregonLive.com

Like details in many other legendary criminal cases, the provenance of the parachutes has been the subject of some dispute:

In examining Cossey’s stature in the Norjak investigation, his most damaging statement was that he was the owner of the back chutes. This claim has come under increasing disbelief as federal documents reveal that the parachutes were owned and delivered to Sea-Tac airport by a Kent pilot named Norman Hayden.

Further, scrutiny of Mr. Cossey’s analysis of the survivability of the Cooper jump and the parachutes the skyjacker used has also come into question as other experts in the field refute Cossey’s view, most notably Mark Metzler. At the 2011 Symposium in Portland, Metzler thoroughly rebuffed Cossey’s claim that the 28-foot military NB-8 was a poor choice, and stated that as a naval pilot emergency rig it most likely would have a canopy designed for a high-speed jet opening. This perspective contrasted sharply with Cossey’s oft-stated contention that Cooper should have chosen the civilian sport chute because it was designed for a softer opening.

Cossey may not have had a formal partnership with the FBI, but he was clearly their go-to-guy for parachute questions. When I asked an agent or the PIO about Cooper and his chutes I would be directed towards Coss.

...Additionally, Cossey had told me conflicting pieces of information over several phone interviews since 2009, such as whether he had provided an NB-8 or an NB-6 parachute, and the exact name of the second, not-used chute. In one instance Cossey called it a “Paradise” and on another he said it was a Pioneer.

When I asked for a clarification on the story that he had stuffed a 28-foot canopy into an NB-6 rather than the larger NB-8 sack, he told me the stuffing story was “pretty much accurate.” He later said that the tightly-packed rig was another reason why this chute – that Cooper allegedly used – was a hard pull.

Along those lines, Cossey has never explained why he modified a pilot’s emergency rig to make it more difficult to use. Cossey had told me and many others that he had re-located the rip cord on the chute and had tucked the handle into a pouch under the right arm-pit, thus making the chute a “double-pull.” This meant that Cooper would need two tugs on the rip cord to successfully deploy the rig – one out of the pouch and a second up and away to free the canopy.

Further, Cossey has never explained why he sent the two back chutes to Boeing Field first and not Sea-Tac where the skyjacker waited.
https://themountainnewswa.net/2013/0...b-cooper-case/
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 22:09
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Methinks our man Cooper either landed inside the Mt St Helens caldera
There was no Mt. St. Helens caldera as such at the time of the DB Cooper hijacking - it wasn't formed until St. Helens erupted and exploded in 1980 - years later... Prior to that the top of St. Helens was basically conical.
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Old 16th Jan 2017, 02:40
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I was impressed by this womans story (below) and I'm surprised the FBI hasn't used the more modern and substantially improved forensic abilities of todays scientific policing, to match up the DNA of Lynn Doyle Cooper, to the evidence they hold from the hijacking, such as D B Coopers tie.

Today, we have many "cold case" crimes from 20, 30 and 40 years ago, being solved purely by the application of current, high-tech forensic testing being able to match DNA samples that were previously unable to be sampled and matched.

DB Cooper case 'solved': FBI tells niece of skyjacking suspect after 'matching' fingerprint | Daily Mail Online

Marla Coopers story has the ring of authenticity, an uncle who disappeared for a couple of days, who showed up injured (as you would, parachuting into timbered terrain in the dark), and the money being lost during the parachuting, jells with no currency with the recorded serial numbers on them, ever showing up.
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Old 16th Jan 2017, 04:10
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1. Conspicuously absent from the "citizensleuths' report is any evidence "Dan Cooper" bought the tie new. They seem to just presume all particles and other contaminants on the tie came from his activities.

Maybe he bought the tie used at a thrift store, where belongings often go after people move, retire, or die. Or at a yard sale, or ???

(And if the tie was linked to someone involved in the SST program that was canceled in 1971, might there have been a lot of employees retiring, moving, etc, around that time)? Persons associated with the military also may move around a lot.

Or perhaps the tie had belonged to a male relative or in-law, or to a roommate or ex-roommate, or an engineering professor or student, or ???

Lot of assumptions in report, but......


2. Also lacking (in this report) is any real evidence of when that particular tie might have been sold new.

It says Penney stopped selling that model tie a year to 18 months earlier -- but when was that model first sold, and for how long was it being sold?

Is there any evidence that might help date when the tie was made and sold new, such as the dye, thread, weaving or assembly method, plant where it was manufactured or the batch, or ....)?


3. Were there any stains from food or drink?
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Old 16th Jan 2017, 04:30
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I remember listening to the news dispatches on the hijacking as the story unfolded in the late evening Eastern Time. I was in college, years before I flew the 727.

Some of the FBI interviews are on this page:

https://true.ink/story/d-b-cooper-fbi-files-released/

Also, some of the Bureau's Freedom of Information Act releases are published here:

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper%20

Looking over the FBI files, the flight engineer Bill Rataczak, listed in the FBI interview as the 'third officer', seem to think that the hijacker was knowledgeable about aircraft and in particular the 727. He also shared the impression that the hijack was premeditated and well planned.

It turns out that the $200,000 came from a $250,000 stash thoughtfully set aside for ransom money by the Seattle-First National Bank and the used bills had been microfilmed well in advance. Did Cooper somehow know that this $200,000 was available on short notice after hours? But not know that the bills had recorded serial numbers?

The hijacker seemed to be impatient about a refueling delay at Sea Tac blamed on a vapor lock in one of the trucks. When told they would still need to file a flight plan, he said that they could do it in the air, perhaps he had some type of flying experience.

Once the plane was refueled and the pax and two stewardesses let off at Sea Tac, they took off again, ostensibly for Mexico but actually planned for Reno, maybe to refuel.

Cooper wanted to take off with the aft stairs down. When advised that the plane couldn't rotate in that configuration he initially planned to have the onboard stewardess, Tina Mucklow, lower the stairs for him once airborne. Later, he decided to lower the stairs himself and Ms. Mucklow went up to the cockpit for the remainder of the flight.

They were doing 170 knots indicated with stairs and gear down and flaps 15 at 10,000 feet or below according to information in the FBI files. Ground speed, true airspeed and miles per hour numbers seem to be mixed into some of the media accounts.

The crew 'felt an oscillation' somewhere near Portland but continued to Reno seemingly not sure if the hijacker was still aboard. They told the rider over the interphone or PA that the stairs needed to be raised for landing to avoid damage but got no response.

They landed at Reno dragging the stairs and a search found that the passenger was no longer onboard.

I always thought that the story about the SR-71 joining the search for D.B. Cooper was probably urban legend but one of the documents indicates that five passes were indeed made by the SR but nothing was photographed due to cloud cover.

There was a 'fake news' D.B. Cooper interview story picked up in 1972 by several media outlets including Newsweek and the LA Times. Someone calling himself Seth Thomas supposedly set up a meeting between Cooper and a reporter for a new weekly publication named LA. Much of the material in the published 'interview' seems to me to come from the FBI interview documents, I wonder if a 'journalist' was leaked copies to create this apparent media hoax of the perp's survival?

Later the story was debunked and it turns out that the ersatz interviewee was a con-man who received $30,000 and was already in jail before the first installment of the story ran. The reporter turned out to be a guy named Karl Fleming who, predictably, insisted that he did nothing to mislead the readers. When confronted with the, uh, inaccuracies he insisted that the series was an adventure chronicle, as much about him as about D.B. Cooper.

These questionable claims about the hijacking still pop up in print and in TV 'documentaries' but the FBI has officially put the case on ice:

The FBI says it is ending its 45-year pursuit of D.B. Cooper and giving up any real hope of closing the case file on the nation’s only unsolved hijacking. But don’t think the legend — and the quest for Cooper — won’t live on.

The bureau announced Tuesday that it was “redirecting resources” that had been allocated to the investigation into the Thanksgiving Eve 1971 hijacking of a Seattle-bound Boeing 727 that ended when a tall, dark-complexioned man who had identified himself as “D.B. Cooper” parachuted into the pitch dark Northwest night sky with a satchel containing $200,000 in cash. He was never seen again.

The bureau said the case, dubbed NORJAK, has been active since, becoming one of the agency’s “longest and most exhaustive investigations.”
FBI no longer looking for D.B. Cooper | The Seattle Times
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Old 16th Jan 2017, 06:48
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Question. If he did indeed work in the industry, and had in-depth knowledge of the aircraft - is there anywhere on the plane where he might have hidden, and been overlooked when it was searched after landing?

If so, the easiest way to get away with it might be to hide somewhere on board, then wait until everyone left and things quieted down - then just walk away. "DB" could even have gone back and planted a stack or two of bills somewhere that he thought they'd be found, to make it appear he'd been killed.

Given the number of bills in circulation, I'd think that as long as he waited a couple years and spent them far from the area of the hijack (and didn't spend a huge amount of cash at one time), it's unlikely anyone would ever check the serial numbers.
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Old 16th Jan 2017, 07:26
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Here's a rather long documentary about D B Cooper

I give it some credibility as an former FBI Assonant Director is very much involved in the production.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4jzmdc

However, although well worth a watch, if you have nothing else to do !! , it, as expected does not come to any firm conclusions.


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