The Vanguard - why was it not?
I've questioned elsewhere why the Vanguard was so noisy
Like the Trident, the Vanguard was over-complex engineering-wise. For example, the props, engine intakes and tail leading edges were anti-iced electrically, the engines internally by bleed air and the wing leading edges by hot air generated by heat exchangers taking in ambient air and warming it using exhaust gases.
Ditto the Trident: converting from the T-bird on to the 737 we were surprised to learn that, in contrast to the highly complex anti-icing system on the former's tail surfaces, the tail of the Boeing was not anti-iced at all.
Last edited by Discorde; 12th Jan 2016 at 13:22.
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Having had a good number of Vanguard flights between Manchester and London in the 1960s ("Student" standby fare one way for under 23s was £2/10/6d) I would confirm a good number of the points raised. The vibration seemed to travel down the roof from front to rear in waves, particularly in the climb. At one stage, around 1963, there was a period when the engines were desynchronised at the top of climb and the aircraft seemed to hang in the air. The rear cabin was certainly the place to head for in the period of unallocated seats, unless moderate turbulence was on the menu.
As for noise on the ground, Vanguards taxying at Manchester were regularly heard in Heaton Moor, Stockport, around 6.5 miles as the Vanguard flew.
As for noise on the ground, Vanguards taxying at Manchester were regularly heard in Heaton Moor, Stockport, around 6.5 miles as the Vanguard flew.
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VHBM wrote:
I've always blamed the (De Havilland) square-ended props, as opposed to the (Dowty) rounded ones on the Britannia
I've always blamed the (De Havilland) square-ended props, as opposed to the (Dowty) rounded ones on the Britannia
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"...more silent"? Do you mean "less noisy" ? That said, the Vanguard was a qualified success for Trans Canada Airlines, especially on the high-density Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor. The "Mudguard" was a good stop-gap while awaiting the DC-9. Air Canada's selection of the DC-9 also offered a few aerospace jobs, as some DC-9 components were built in Canada, something no British-built jetliner could offer.
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IIRC the TCA Vanguards also suffered from leaking toilets that caused some corrosion. When I joined the BAC Design Office at Hurn, one of the structural engineers' claim to fame was that he'd done the on-site repair schemes.
As for noise on the ground, Vanguards taxying at Manchester were regularly heard in Heaton Moor, Stockport, around 6.5 miles as the Vanguard flew.
Engine issues
I seem to recall that in addition to all said before there were issues with the RR Tyne engine and that was just 'another' issue too many for it to be a Viscount replacement;as the new 'Jets' had more sales appeal.
Having said that i do not know if it was ever even considered as a UK 'Orion'.
I suspect the engine issues were the straw they did not need.
Its all in 'Trubbs' book. I forgot it also had some unpleasant stalling issues and was not considered to handle like the Viscount.
Having said that i do not know if it was ever even considered as a UK 'Orion'.
I suspect the engine issues were the straw they did not need.
Its all in 'Trubbs' book. I forgot it also had some unpleasant stalling issues and was not considered to handle like the Viscount.
Its all in 'Trubbs' book.
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The Tyne certainly wasn't reliable compared to modern turboprops. In my time at AirBridge (avionics engineer), I think we normally managed at best 1100-1200 hours on the wing between shop visits - and that meant sending them to MTU in Germany as Rolls Royce had transferred design and support to them.
Trubshaw Book
The book is Brian Trubshaw Test Pilot
A very good read and covers most of the major 'Vickers' aircraft and of course Concorde.
He pulls no punches on the machines and is quite outspoken on the various 'problems' encountered.
His reports on the Valiant, BAC111 and VC10 are comprehensive,and the account of the Vanguard certification meeting with the ARB quite entertaining.
The Tyne engine gave problems from the start and no doubt RR were pleased to pass it on.
A very good read and covers most of the major 'Vickers' aircraft and of course Concorde.
He pulls no punches on the machines and is quite outspoken on the various 'problems' encountered.
His reports on the Valiant, BAC111 and VC10 are comprehensive,and the account of the Vanguard certification meeting with the ARB quite entertaining.
The Tyne engine gave problems from the start and no doubt RR were pleased to pass it on.
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...yet the Ilyushin IL-18 was widely exported and is considered one of the most durable and successful Soviet-era airliners.
In the mid-1980's, I was a passenger on a Holquin to Havana Cubana IL-18 flight. It was comfortable, roomy and reasonably fast.
In the mid-1980's, I was a passenger on a Holquin to Havana Cubana IL-18 flight. It was comfortable, roomy and reasonably fast.
It was comfortable, roomy and reasonably fast.
I used to see one belonging to Vietnam Airlines back in the 90s.
