Edgley EA-7 Optica G-BOPO
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The supporting text on Youtube explains the sad story of the Optica quite well!
With stall-speed at 58 knot I find it not that purposely fitted for aerial surveillance as one would expect by such a specialized plane :-/
With stall-speed at 58 knot I find it not that purposely fitted for aerial surveillance as one would expect by such a specialized plane :-/
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I remember it was expensive to buy, expensive to run, poor performance for the power in that size airframe, noisy, not easy to fly in the surveillance role due highish wing loading and poor pitch reference with having no forward fuselage.
So really, not much going for it.
So really, not much going for it.
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From my garden in Gosport, it was certainly quieter than the current day, not that cheap, mechanical palm tree. It seemed to be doing quite well until Hampshire's finest piled KATY in.
Last edited by GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU; 2nd Apr 2015 at 22:52. Reason: Crap Typing
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John Edgely was at Farnborough with it last year, looking for business... An internet search will take you swiftly to his company's page (and lots more about the aircraft including a 'where are they now' for each airframe produced).
Stall speed 58kt? I got the prototype GBGMW back to just over 40 with full flap (flying with Angus McVitie) and it was still very controllable.
Last edited by chevvron; 18th Mar 2016 at 14:01.
The AAIB report on the accident to Optica G-KATY quotes the following stall speeds:-
Bank Angle (Degrees)......0......20......40.......60
Stall Speed (KIAS)..........43.....46......56.......76
Bank Angle (Degrees)......0......20......40.......60
Stall Speed (KIAS)..........43.....46......56.......76
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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Not sure when he started on the Optica programme but Neville Duke had responsibility for its ‘B’ conditions flying at FLS up to 6 March 1992 when the CAA asked me to take over as Neville was then 70.
I had no beefs with its handling and enjoyed flying it – including Farnborough that year.
Later when a bunch were leased to a Spanish operator I had to get checked out as a TRE on type. On the due day a CAA examiner arrived at Hurn in an HS125. I conducted a formal brief treating him as a student emphasising the need to properly position the ballast weights in either the nose or tail to control the CG because three heavy men in the cockpit gave quite a different CG compared to a small lady flying solo.
I then went on to say the type had a few gotchers which were not spelled out in the pilot’s notes and these really needed watching. Such as the spectacular view could frighten a passenger who might then grab the starboard stick unless it was removed for such a flight. With less than half fuel, if a wing was dropped to view a line feature and heading was maintained with top rudder, after a while all the fuel would run down into the bottom wing and the engine would stop. With the RPM gauge showing zero (the fan would not windmill) it was necessary to use the ground hot start procedure and since this needed two hands the knees had to be used to control the flight path.
The examiner clearly thought the brief was suitably thorough and announced it would not be necessary for us to fly before he signed my paperwork. Happy days.
I had no beefs with its handling and enjoyed flying it – including Farnborough that year.
Later when a bunch were leased to a Spanish operator I had to get checked out as a TRE on type. On the due day a CAA examiner arrived at Hurn in an HS125. I conducted a formal brief treating him as a student emphasising the need to properly position the ballast weights in either the nose or tail to control the CG because three heavy men in the cockpit gave quite a different CG compared to a small lady flying solo.
I then went on to say the type had a few gotchers which were not spelled out in the pilot’s notes and these really needed watching. Such as the spectacular view could frighten a passenger who might then grab the starboard stick unless it was removed for such a flight. With less than half fuel, if a wing was dropped to view a line feature and heading was maintained with top rudder, after a while all the fuel would run down into the bottom wing and the engine would stop. With the RPM gauge showing zero (the fan would not windmill) it was necessary to use the ground hot start procedure and since this needed two hands the knees had to be used to control the flight path.
The examiner clearly thought the brief was suitably thorough and announced it would not be necessary for us to fly before he signed my paperwork. Happy days.
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Happy indeed John. It was all 'analogue' then. If in your judgement as an examiner somebody was obviously competent, the show could be called off and the person signed off. These days it's 'digital'. All the boxes have to be ticked. The professional opinion, often gut feeling doesn't count and the box requirements have to continue all the way to the end. All to do with backside tin plating to avoid litigation. A real shame in a way, I was a TRE in the old days, wouldn't like to do it now.
ISTR that the test pilot at some stage was Neville Duke
"http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/539423-edgley-ea7-optica.html"
This is a long shot but, apparently, several years ago there was a BBC documentary regarding the demise of Optica and the suspicious fire at the hangar at Old Sarum. I don't suppose anyone has access to this programme? I've checked YouTube but no joy.
Also, does anyone remember Grenville Hodge/Alan Haikney when they were directors of Edgley Optica?
Also, does anyone remember Grenville Hodge/Alan Haikney when they were directors of Edgley Optica?
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Wg Cdr Dicky Martin did quite a bit of test flying for the Optica. What he told me of it left me with a clear impression that he liked the aeroplane and thought it fit for purpose. He was saddened that it was not a commercial success but did say that the gold-fish bowl nose did make for excellent visibility but it was not best suited to an inexperienced PPL-holder as it was more complicated that a typical spam-can.
He was and ETPS-trained test pilot and had flown more than 240 types and had over 19,000 hours so he should have been able to tell a good one from a bad one.....
MB
He was and ETPS-trained test pilot and had flown more than 240 types and had over 19,000 hours so he should have been able to tell a good one from a bad one.....
MB
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Why did it have a ducted fan, rather than a simple pusher propellor? It seems to add complication to what presumably ought to be a simple airframe. Wikipedia says the ducted fan made it quiet. Is that the reason, or were there other considerations, or were ducted fans just thought cool at the time?
I think that the ducted fan was used because it was a new and cool idea.
I don't have the hours some other people do on the type, but got to do an evaluation on it a few years back and whilst I enjoyed it enormously, thought it was a poor aircraft for the police role.
There were some handling issues - particularly (if my memory is reliable) a spiral instability I didn't like for safe and accurate low level flying. More significantly however were the poor payload (full fuel and 2 crew with no kit, or about 1/3 fuel with 3POB IIRC), the ballast issue John already mentioned, the lack of any stowage for mission kit (cameras and the like), the lack of anywhere to put the large raft of comms gear that a police operator will want, and that it is only certified for day-VMC.
The ground handling I thought was also a bit of an issue - the 45ft wingspan would give issues at many GA airfields (I'm sure it was fine at Hurn - but imagine trying to say drop into Elstree), and the offset nosewheel with its asymmetric turning circle was entertaining.
And whilst I thought that the bubble nose was gorgeous for sitting observing the world go past - or presumably observing bad people underneath - the 90ish knot max level flight speed was presumably a factor of that, the fan, and the big wing, and a bit limiting, as well as unimpressive with a 240hp engine.
Most of which good engineering could probably fix. Night and IMC capability wouldn't be that hard to achieve, modern FEA could redesign the structure lighter, and airborne handling glitches can be ironed out. The ground handling could be tolerated in a smallish patch with a reasonable number of decent airfields, and some technological solution to the ballast issue can probably be design. In the 21st century, it also wants a Garmin or similar glass cockpit. I don't get the impression that John Edgley however really wanted to hear those sort of suggestions from me or anybody else.
I have a real soft spot for the aeroplane: it was something that particularly inspired me into aeronautics as a teenager, but rather doubt that it will sell in 2016 when for example the Seabird Seeker is on the market with a full CofA and production capability. Somebody would have to put significant effort into revising the Optica to compete with what else is out there now, and I have doubts that anybody is going to pay for that.
Incidentally at the same time that I was being inspired by the Optica as a teenager, and an elderly Neville Duke was test flying it, the young engineer running a lot of the flight test engineering was one Francis Donaldson. Gratuitously dropping names, Paul Mulcahy - later CAA's Chief Test Pilot and presently test flying the PC24 at Pilatus did his ETPS pilots assessment exercise in 1992 on the Optica, with Neville Duke as his safety pilot - presumably just before JF took over. It's an aeroplane with quite an interesting fan club!
G
I don't have the hours some other people do on the type, but got to do an evaluation on it a few years back and whilst I enjoyed it enormously, thought it was a poor aircraft for the police role.
There were some handling issues - particularly (if my memory is reliable) a spiral instability I didn't like for safe and accurate low level flying. More significantly however were the poor payload (full fuel and 2 crew with no kit, or about 1/3 fuel with 3POB IIRC), the ballast issue John already mentioned, the lack of any stowage for mission kit (cameras and the like), the lack of anywhere to put the large raft of comms gear that a police operator will want, and that it is only certified for day-VMC.
The ground handling I thought was also a bit of an issue - the 45ft wingspan would give issues at many GA airfields (I'm sure it was fine at Hurn - but imagine trying to say drop into Elstree), and the offset nosewheel with its asymmetric turning circle was entertaining.
And whilst I thought that the bubble nose was gorgeous for sitting observing the world go past - or presumably observing bad people underneath - the 90ish knot max level flight speed was presumably a factor of that, the fan, and the big wing, and a bit limiting, as well as unimpressive with a 240hp engine.
Most of which good engineering could probably fix. Night and IMC capability wouldn't be that hard to achieve, modern FEA could redesign the structure lighter, and airborne handling glitches can be ironed out. The ground handling could be tolerated in a smallish patch with a reasonable number of decent airfields, and some technological solution to the ballast issue can probably be design. In the 21st century, it also wants a Garmin or similar glass cockpit. I don't get the impression that John Edgley however really wanted to hear those sort of suggestions from me or anybody else.
I have a real soft spot for the aeroplane: it was something that particularly inspired me into aeronautics as a teenager, but rather doubt that it will sell in 2016 when for example the Seabird Seeker is on the market with a full CofA and production capability. Somebody would have to put significant effort into revising the Optica to compete with what else is out there now, and I have doubts that anybody is going to pay for that.
Incidentally at the same time that I was being inspired by the Optica as a teenager, and an elderly Neville Duke was test flying it, the young engineer running a lot of the flight test engineering was one Francis Donaldson. Gratuitously dropping names, Paul Mulcahy - later CAA's Chief Test Pilot and presently test flying the PC24 at Pilatus did his ETPS pilots assessment exercise in 1992 on the Optica, with Neville Duke as his safety pilot - presumably just before JF took over. It's an aeroplane with quite an interesting fan club!
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 8th Mar 2016 at 06:26.
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I beleive there was some very bad publicity when one aircraft loaned to the Manchester police sadly crashed and both pilot and observer killed also the fire at the factory was a mystery it was shown one crime watch this was the nail in the coffin
It was on loan to Hampshire Constabulary, crashed at Ringwood....