BOAC B707 ops in the 1960s
The story of the Moscow chandelier was published in Horizon the BOAC Flight Operations magazine. That must have been 1969 or thereabouts. Soon after it was repeated in some British national newspapers.
A few years later a friend of mine who worked for Caledonian claimed it had happened to their crew who flew a British Government charter into Moscow in the early 1970s . He was unaware of the earlier attribution of the story to BOAC.
Then much later still I met a non-aviation person who claimed it had happened to him in Poland. He professed no knowledge of what was by now a much repeated airline story. I can't help thinking that it must have reached urban legend status.
A few years later a friend of mine who worked for Caledonian claimed it had happened to their crew who flew a British Government charter into Moscow in the early 1970s . He was unaware of the earlier attribution of the story to BOAC.
Then much later still I met a non-aviation person who claimed it had happened to him in Poland. He professed no knowledge of what was by now a much repeated airline story. I can't help thinking that it must have reached urban legend status.
I can't help thinking that it must have reached urban legend status.
See the end of this link:
http://www.snopes.com/embarrass/accident/bugrug.asp
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SR288 RIO ?
Blind, hi, you got me interested in this RIO flight with Swissair DC-10 as I remember well these 3-4 times weekly service out of GVA around 24h00. Was the last flight to depart together with another swissair flight (Nairobi SR144 if I remember well) before airport would close. They would almost always depart from 05 to take advantage of runway slope (so did GVA dispatch explain me) That would mean they would pass overhead family house within 30'' of flight and I vividly remember all the windows shaking under the thunder of the screaming CF-6 (?) amd we always got the impression they would not climb at all and crash within the next nm or so. Well my question to you would be, what was special from ops point of view to make it marginal ? Was it the sector lenght and fuel state ? Care to elaborate a bit ? Marvelous thread BTW, you BOAC people probably had the "dream" life in commercial aviation during the "golden era" (i.e. good pay and good working conditions, interesting network etc.)
Barry. The chandelier didn't crash down in the lobby. It was the suite below. The Captains suite had a chandelier as well as the Grand piano so this was repeated down each floor.
My memory is pretty good but the hotel could have been the Ukrainen rather than just Ukraine.
My memory is pretty good but the hotel could have been the Ukrainen rather than just Ukraine.
If it was that Stalinist monstrosity near the river on Kutuzovsky Avenue, then it's definitely the Ukraine (now a Radisson Hotel apparently
). It was certainly one of the few hotels on the 'approved' list because I stayed there a number of times, in fact I was once given a suite at the very top, which had the biggest bathroom and bath I have ever seen. The water was still the colour and consistency of Brown Windsor Soup though!
Last edited by barry lloyd; 15th Dec 2015 at 22:51. Reason: added photo
The story as I first heard it starts with a short Notice in the 'Orders and Notices' manual which everyone was supposed to read before flying.
In those days we always referred to the BOAC HQ at Heathrow as 'The Kremlin'. You know the sort of thing - a new instruction to crews is published and crewmembers in hotels and bars down the route would say things like. "Those bl**dy blokes in the Kremlin, can't organise a piss up in a brewery, etc, etc."
So a notice appears saying something about, 'when staying in Moscow, it would be advisable not to make disparaging remarks about the Kremlin, the rooms being bugged and the possibility of the listeners misinterpreting the usual crew chat.'
Naturally, crews being only human, they search their rooms for bugs. Pictures are taken down, telephones dismantled, chests of drawers examined, bed knobs unscrewed, etc, etc.
Then, when staying in Moscow, they all gather at the crew party in the captain's suite, and everyone searches for bugs. A slight bulge is noticed in the carpet, and it is rolled back to reveal a sinister looking fitting with a large nut in the middle. So the engineer is sent off to his room to bring back his box of spanners (all flight engineers being well equipped). He returns and unscrews the nut, at which point the central bolt disappears followed by a loud cash from the room below. And then it dawns upon them.....because exactly above their heads there hangs a chandelier!
So the nut is carefully replaced, the carpet rolled back, the party continued and not a word is said.
Well....that was how I heard the story! I guess there are many versions.
In those days we always referred to the BOAC HQ at Heathrow as 'The Kremlin'. You know the sort of thing - a new instruction to crews is published and crewmembers in hotels and bars down the route would say things like. "Those bl**dy blokes in the Kremlin, can't organise a piss up in a brewery, etc, etc."
So a notice appears saying something about, 'when staying in Moscow, it would be advisable not to make disparaging remarks about the Kremlin, the rooms being bugged and the possibility of the listeners misinterpreting the usual crew chat.'
Naturally, crews being only human, they search their rooms for bugs. Pictures are taken down, telephones dismantled, chests of drawers examined, bed knobs unscrewed, etc, etc.
Then, when staying in Moscow, they all gather at the crew party in the captain's suite, and everyone searches for bugs. A slight bulge is noticed in the carpet, and it is rolled back to reveal a sinister looking fitting with a large nut in the middle. So the engineer is sent off to his room to bring back his box of spanners (all flight engineers being well equipped). He returns and unscrews the nut, at which point the central bolt disappears followed by a loud cash from the room below. And then it dawns upon them.....because exactly above their heads there hangs a chandelier!
So the nut is carefully replaced, the carpet rolled back, the party continued and not a word is said.
Well....that was how I heard the story! I guess there are many versions.
He returns and unscrews the nut, at which point the central bolt disappears followed by a loud cash from the room below. And then it dawns upon them.....because exactly above their heads there hangs a chandelier!
So the nut is carefully replaced, the carpet rolled back, the party continued and not a word is said.
So the nut is carefully replaced, the carpet rolled back, the party continued and not a word is said.
Amstrong, I have sent you a PM
Dave, I see, like me, you are a pedant!
Presumably the chandelier was fastened with a threaded bolt that passed from the ceiling beneath, to emerge through the floor above in a recess, where there was a washer above which was a nut screwed on to hold the bolt in place. When the nut was unscrewed the bolt disappeared down through the structure of the floor causing the chandelier (under the influence of gravity) to fall and scatter its components around the bedroom below.
The nut and washer were then carefully replaced exactly over the now vacant hole so that the carpet looked undisturbed in the hope (probably hopeless) that the hotel staff would assume it had unscrewed itself.
Is that description exact enough?!
Dave, I see, like me, you are a pedant!
Presumably the chandelier was fastened with a threaded bolt that passed from the ceiling beneath, to emerge through the floor above in a recess, where there was a washer above which was a nut screwed on to hold the bolt in place. When the nut was unscrewed the bolt disappeared down through the structure of the floor causing the chandelier (under the influence of gravity) to fall and scatter its components around the bedroom below.
The nut and washer were then carefully replaced exactly over the now vacant hole so that the carpet looked undisturbed in the hope (probably hopeless) that the hotel staff would assume it had unscrewed itself.
Is that description exact enough?!
Well no, not really.
If the chandelier was really suspended from said bolt, then the scenario described "when the nut was unscrewed the bolt disappeared down through the structure of the floor" seems a tad unlikely.
Even the dimmest BOAC flight engineer would have twigged if, as soon as the nut started being backed off, the bolt was clearly being pulled down into the hole. To then carry on removing the nut would seem to be a rather imprudent thing to do.
Or maybe the bolt stayed put and only disappeared after the nut had been completely removed, a bit like Wile E Coyote only plummeting to earth after he has looked down and realised that he's no longer standing on the cliff edge?
If the chandelier was really suspended from said bolt, then the scenario described "when the nut was unscrewed the bolt disappeared down through the structure of the floor" seems a tad unlikely.
Even the dimmest BOAC flight engineer would have twigged if, as soon as the nut started being backed off, the bolt was clearly being pulled down into the hole. To then carry on removing the nut would seem to be a rather imprudent thing to do.
Or maybe the bolt stayed put and only disappeared after the nut had been completely removed, a bit like Wile E Coyote only plummeting to earth after he has looked down and realised that he's no longer standing on the cliff edge?
Dave, I wasn't there. Your last para seems the most probable sequence of events.
In June 1970, BOAC schedulng telephoned to let me know I was operating the next day to Moscow. I was to replace a Captain ------ (not operating as captain) who was unable to go.
This was to be the second service London Moscow (and on to Tokyo).
When I turned up at crew reporting the Captain was -----. who had already operated the first service a few days before. The other co-pilot, ----, and I thought it a little strange when Captain ----- went and bought some sandwiches in Terminal 3.
The flight to Moscow was OK but on arrival we soon realised what a miserable place it was (remember this was 1970). At the hotel (not yet the Ukraine) I think we had a couple of beers in someone's room and then ---- and I decided to go out for something to eat. We soon realised why Captain ----- had self-catered. Nothing, absolutely nothing, was available.
Over the next ten years I went to Moscow many times as co-pilot and then captain.
I heard the chandelier story many times, often from people who had never been to Moscow.
However we never found any evidence at the Ukraine - and I am sure when the story started plenty of other crews would have been looking under the carpets.
So, very sorry chaps, but I think the story is an urban legend.
Mike
At the request of the survivors the names have been removed.
This was to be the second service London Moscow (and on to Tokyo).
When I turned up at crew reporting the Captain was -----. who had already operated the first service a few days before. The other co-pilot, ----, and I thought it a little strange when Captain ----- went and bought some sandwiches in Terminal 3.
The flight to Moscow was OK but on arrival we soon realised what a miserable place it was (remember this was 1970). At the hotel (not yet the Ukraine) I think we had a couple of beers in someone's room and then ---- and I decided to go out for something to eat. We soon realised why Captain ----- had self-catered. Nothing, absolutely nothing, was available.
Over the next ten years I went to Moscow many times as co-pilot and then captain.
I heard the chandelier story many times, often from people who had never been to Moscow.
However we never found any evidence at the Ukraine - and I am sure when the story started plenty of other crews would have been looking under the carpets.
So, very sorry chaps, but I think the story is an urban legend.
Mike
At the request of the survivors the names have been removed.
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The first hotel we stayed at was the National - an absolute dump! Breakfast the next day left much to be desired - Boiled eggs served from a bucket! Luke warm and Barkley cooked , thank whoever for the bread!
Went there quite a few times on the 707 but can't remember which hotels we stayed at - it was when I went back on the 747 that I can remember staying at the Ukraine Hotel.
Went there quite a few times on the 707 but can't remember which hotels we stayed at - it was when I went back on the 747 that I can remember staying at the Ukraine Hotel.
My first trip to Moscow on the 707 was with a Captain who had been BALPA President during a "look-see" visit to Aeroflot operations during some previous negotiations - details I forget. Upon arrival in Moscow he made contact with a previous acquaintance from that meeting and shortly afterwards three Russians arrived, one Politburo member with some responsibility for Aeroflot, a uniformed Aeroflot official, and an interpreter who wore a never-to-be-removed flat cap and muffler, who resembled the cartoon character Andy Capp!
We were immediately whisked off to some smart restaurant where food and drink of the highest order - the likes of which I never saw again in Moscow - were produced, caviar, Georgian Brandy etc. Having gorged ourselves without restraint we were asked to say a few words regarding our first impressions of Moscow, but although our words were repeated by the interpreter it was obvious from facial expressions that no interpreter was really necessary, they were just going through the motions.
The Flt/Eng. asked how production of the Concorde rival, the TU 144 (?) was going. Immediately there was a change of atmosphere around the table. "We know nothing of a TU 144" was the reply. "You must do" said our F/Eng. " it's your most prestigious product to date, a rival to the Concorde" "We know nothing" was again the reply. A few well aimed kicks under the table shut him up, we clearly were not going to be told anything.
After a few brandies conversation became a little less restrained, and as it was just before the annual Red Square anniversary parade, we told the Politburo man that we would see shots of this on BBC television the next week, and that if he stood up in the VIP seating area and waved, we would see him ! He replied that he was too old, and that it would be too cold, and that he would be watching the parade on his colour televeision at home. I don't think I'd even bought my first B & W TV at that time !
After the meal we were poured into the Bolshoi Theatre to watch some operatic production. Our hosts said that tho' they could secure seats, even they couldn't get four sat together at such short notice. The F/Eng. and I did actually sit together, but the Capt. and F/O were in different parts of the theatre.
At the end of the first Act I remarked to the F/Eng. that although I was enjoying the spectacle and the music, I hadn't the faintest idea what the bloody hell the story was all about ? A very pretty, olive skinned woman ( i.e. not the usual hewn-out-of-solid Russian female form ) sat next to me then said " I will tell you what the bloody hell it is all about" and proceeded to give me the synopsis of the, specifically Russian, opera. I remarked upon her perfect English, Yes, she replied, I've lived in London. I said that that was unusual and she replied "for me that is no problem" We had obviously been "seeded" around the audience and deliberately sat next to someone who could overhear, and understand, what we might talk about. ( Paranoid ? Moi ?)
For some reason we positioned back to LHR as passengers on that occasion, and the operating Captain was the then 707 Flt. Mgr. On departure from the hotel we and the operating crew were stood at the hotel entrance waiting for the usual decrepit bus to take us to the airport when 2 large black Zlin (?) limousines drew up and we were summoned to take a VIP ride to the airport, leaving the Flt.Mgr. and his crew still awaiting the bus !!
During the flight I was summoned to the flight deck - "Don't tell him anything" said my Captain ! On the flight deck the Flt. Mgr. said " looks like you have some influential friends in Moscow ?" I told him nothing !
On another visit we were discussing the difficulty of obtaining breakfast, and our stewardess, an "older" lady from the BSAA Star Girl era said "I have breakfast in my room, on room service". Room service, in Moscow ? we retorted. Yes, she said, follow me, whereupon she marched down the corridor to the Dragon Lady, where it was then a bit like that Joyce Grenfell sketch where she describes two large ladies dancing bust to bust !
" I want breakfast in room 239 at nine o'clock ", our stewardess said, and proceeded to give her detailed menu order. The Dragon Lady pulled open a drawer, produced a piece of paper and wrote down the instructions. "See?" said our stewardess, "Easy".
One of the crew then asked for breakfast in room XXX at nine o'clock. Niet, said the Dragon Lady, 08.45, then proceeded to point to us all and assign a time, 08.30, 09.15 etc. At my appointed time and still in bed, my triple locked and chained door was burst open and an obviously disgruntled Russian maid dropped a breakfast tray on my bedside table and then held her hand out for a tip. Being naked in bed ( I lost too many pairs of pyjamas tucked under a pillow and forgotten on departure ! ) I pointed to my loose change dropped into my upturned hat - as one did - and she picked out a 2/- piece with an enquiring look, I nodded and she left. I got my breakfast in bed ! I never repeated the exercise.
We were immediately whisked off to some smart restaurant where food and drink of the highest order - the likes of which I never saw again in Moscow - were produced, caviar, Georgian Brandy etc. Having gorged ourselves without restraint we were asked to say a few words regarding our first impressions of Moscow, but although our words were repeated by the interpreter it was obvious from facial expressions that no interpreter was really necessary, they were just going through the motions.
The Flt/Eng. asked how production of the Concorde rival, the TU 144 (?) was going. Immediately there was a change of atmosphere around the table. "We know nothing of a TU 144" was the reply. "You must do" said our F/Eng. " it's your most prestigious product to date, a rival to the Concorde" "We know nothing" was again the reply. A few well aimed kicks under the table shut him up, we clearly were not going to be told anything.
After a few brandies conversation became a little less restrained, and as it was just before the annual Red Square anniversary parade, we told the Politburo man that we would see shots of this on BBC television the next week, and that if he stood up in the VIP seating area and waved, we would see him ! He replied that he was too old, and that it would be too cold, and that he would be watching the parade on his colour televeision at home. I don't think I'd even bought my first B & W TV at that time !
After the meal we were poured into the Bolshoi Theatre to watch some operatic production. Our hosts said that tho' they could secure seats, even they couldn't get four sat together at such short notice. The F/Eng. and I did actually sit together, but the Capt. and F/O were in different parts of the theatre.
At the end of the first Act I remarked to the F/Eng. that although I was enjoying the spectacle and the music, I hadn't the faintest idea what the bloody hell the story was all about ? A very pretty, olive skinned woman ( i.e. not the usual hewn-out-of-solid Russian female form ) sat next to me then said " I will tell you what the bloody hell it is all about" and proceeded to give me the synopsis of the, specifically Russian, opera. I remarked upon her perfect English, Yes, she replied, I've lived in London. I said that that was unusual and she replied "for me that is no problem" We had obviously been "seeded" around the audience and deliberately sat next to someone who could overhear, and understand, what we might talk about. ( Paranoid ? Moi ?)
For some reason we positioned back to LHR as passengers on that occasion, and the operating Captain was the then 707 Flt. Mgr. On departure from the hotel we and the operating crew were stood at the hotel entrance waiting for the usual decrepit bus to take us to the airport when 2 large black Zlin (?) limousines drew up and we were summoned to take a VIP ride to the airport, leaving the Flt.Mgr. and his crew still awaiting the bus !!
During the flight I was summoned to the flight deck - "Don't tell him anything" said my Captain ! On the flight deck the Flt. Mgr. said " looks like you have some influential friends in Moscow ?" I told him nothing !
On another visit we were discussing the difficulty of obtaining breakfast, and our stewardess, an "older" lady from the BSAA Star Girl era said "I have breakfast in my room, on room service". Room service, in Moscow ? we retorted. Yes, she said, follow me, whereupon she marched down the corridor to the Dragon Lady, where it was then a bit like that Joyce Grenfell sketch where she describes two large ladies dancing bust to bust !
" I want breakfast in room 239 at nine o'clock ", our stewardess said, and proceeded to give her detailed menu order. The Dragon Lady pulled open a drawer, produced a piece of paper and wrote down the instructions. "See?" said our stewardess, "Easy".
One of the crew then asked for breakfast in room XXX at nine o'clock. Niet, said the Dragon Lady, 08.45, then proceeded to point to us all and assign a time, 08.30, 09.15 etc. At my appointed time and still in bed, my triple locked and chained door was burst open and an obviously disgruntled Russian maid dropped a breakfast tray on my bedside table and then held her hand out for a tip. Being naked in bed ( I lost too many pairs of pyjamas tucked under a pillow and forgotten on departure ! ) I pointed to my loose change dropped into my upturned hat - as one did - and she picked out a 2/- piece with an enquiring look, I nodded and she left. I got my breakfast in bed ! I never repeated the exercise.
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 18th Dec 2015 at 20:56.
Fascinating tales from a time when the only chance I would have had of visiting Russia would have been a one-way trip delivering a bucket of instant sunshine from a Vulcan....
A favourite 'bug' story I was told was about an occasion at the British Embassy, when a pre-Christmas cocktail party was in full swing. During a lull in the proceedings, one drunken reveller called out "And a Happy Christmas to all our friends in the KGB who are listening!".
About 5 seconds later, the ambassador's private phone rang.... "Iss KGB, Happy Christmas to you too.... Click"!
When Gorbachev came to Brize to visit Maggie, I was involved in looking after the aircrews' requirements - mine was the first aircraft which contained the KGB security team for the USA, who were bussed off for lunch. 3 of us went on board and were greeted by a Rosa Klebb lookalike who offered us coffee. We thanked her profusely and she immediately dissolved into smiles like some dear old prep school matron - she beckoned to the rear of the Il 62 from which 3 gorgeous stewardesses appeared with excellent coffee and Russian chocolates.
BA was still having some good nightstops when we bumped into a TriStar crew in Bermuda back in November 1986 having diverted in off our AAR trail from Puerto Rico to the Azores in our VC10 tanker. An epic party time at the Bermudiana, the latter, somewhat private part of which must remain 'classified'....
A favourite 'bug' story I was told was about an occasion at the British Embassy, when a pre-Christmas cocktail party was in full swing. During a lull in the proceedings, one drunken reveller called out "And a Happy Christmas to all our friends in the KGB who are listening!".
About 5 seconds later, the ambassador's private phone rang.... "Iss KGB, Happy Christmas to you too.... Click"!
When Gorbachev came to Brize to visit Maggie, I was involved in looking after the aircrews' requirements - mine was the first aircraft which contained the KGB security team for the USA, who were bussed off for lunch. 3 of us went on board and were greeted by a Rosa Klebb lookalike who offered us coffee. We thanked her profusely and she immediately dissolved into smiles like some dear old prep school matron - she beckoned to the rear of the Il 62 from which 3 gorgeous stewardesses appeared with excellent coffee and Russian chocolates.
BA was still having some good nightstops when we bumped into a TriStar crew in Bermuda back in November 1986 having diverted in off our AAR trail from Puerto Rico to the Azores in our VC10 tanker. An epic party time at the Bermudiana, the latter, somewhat private part of which must remain 'classified'....
ExSp33db1rd,
Good to hear from you again, I hope you are keeping well.
Your description of fun in Moscow was great. Do you have any more stories like that? I didn't get to Moscow until the late 1970s but have fond memories of the old Ukraina.
No bath plugs, no soap, no bog-bumph. Telephone calls from 'students' wanting to join the crew party to practice their English. Always welcomed in and plied with Scotch in the hope of inducing indiscretions - but always blokes, not pretty young girls.
And the dragon ladies at the end of each corridor looking much like Grandma from a Giles cartoon. And of course the never-to-be-missed appalling breakfasts downstairs, I could only stomach the hard boiled eggs and black tea from the samovar, everything else looked disgusting.
Happy days!
Good to hear from you again, I hope you are keeping well.
Your description of fun in Moscow was great. Do you have any more stories like that? I didn't get to Moscow until the late 1970s but have fond memories of the old Ukraina.
No bath plugs, no soap, no bog-bumph. Telephone calls from 'students' wanting to join the crew party to practice their English. Always welcomed in and plied with Scotch in the hope of inducing indiscretions - but always blokes, not pretty young girls.
And the dragon ladies at the end of each corridor looking much like Grandma from a Giles cartoon. And of course the never-to-be-missed appalling breakfasts downstairs, I could only stomach the hard boiled eggs and black tea from the samovar, everything else looked disgusting.
Happy days!
In the early 70's my employer started to do some business Sovietside, mostly in Poland, but my boss and another colleague did go to Russia at that time. I cannot remember where they went but it did involve an internal flight from Moscow by Aeroflot.
On the return trip they landed in Moscow and the passengers were commanded to remain seated. Two men, dressed in black hats and leather overcoats, boarded and my colleagues were told to identify themselves. Their passports were taken and they were then led off the aircraft to a large black car which then proceeded out of the airport and along miles of roads lined with fir trees you get in all the best 50's spy films. Not a word was spoken and they feared the worst.
Eventually, the car swept into another airport and right up to a BOAC aircraft, they were handed back their passports and, in perfect English, wished a happy flight back to London.
On the return trip they landed in Moscow and the passengers were commanded to remain seated. Two men, dressed in black hats and leather overcoats, boarded and my colleagues were told to identify themselves. Their passports were taken and they were then led off the aircraft to a large black car which then proceeded out of the airport and along miles of roads lined with fir trees you get in all the best 50's spy films. Not a word was spoken and they feared the worst.
Eventually, the car swept into another airport and right up to a BOAC aircraft, they were handed back their passports and, in perfect English, wished a happy flight back to London.
I once flew into Moscow and the Flight Engineer wished us a cheery farewell as we boarded the crew bus to the hotel. I asked him where he was going? He replied that he was 'A Hero of The Soviet Union' and was being picked up and taken care of for the slip.
On our return I questioned him and he explained that he was on the Arctic convoys during the war taking essential supplies to the Soviets to assist in their battle against the Nazis.
I don't know exactly what he did, either in the convoy or, indeed, during the Moscow slip.
Anyone out there remember this EO?
On our return I questioned him and he explained that he was on the Arctic convoys during the war taking essential supplies to the Soviets to assist in their battle against the Nazis.
I don't know exactly what he did, either in the convoy or, indeed, during the Moscow slip.
Anyone out there remember this EO?
Moscow from a flat earth society pilok
In 1972 I was flying for the opposition - BEA - and was fortunate to have 24 hours wandering around Moscow after we went tech.
I was flying as P2 ex Moscow and during engine start the motor didn't turn when it should have done. Just like the sim although it was the only time in "real" life that it happened to me.
The Skipper was ex Lancs (his son frequents these pages) and we had already got rid of the KGB on the aircraft as well as Auntie Betty's couriers (from first class of course) and their diplomatic bags.
Sir, along with P3 and moi thought "what has he" (or moi) "cocked up". It wasn't to be sorted so easily so our traveling engineer was hailed from First class.
IIRC (covers the whole post) we had engine 1 running and it was no 2 in the tail.
There is a procedure for a manual start (opening a valve wiv a stick) but that didn't work so we shut down and got some rickety steps which elf and safety would ban nowadays - even in Sheremetyevo.
The ground was covered in fast freezing slush with a blast coming off the Steppes and I volunteered to be the gofer but was wearing my winter wool uniform - so as a 23 year old I wouldn't be too cold.
We had to refuel as the procedure was going to take around an hour - with APU running and an allowance for engine 2 running for a half hour.
So eng removed no 2 starter and no 3, placed 3 starter on 2 and gave it a go.
Nowt.
The ramp looked a bit like my garage when I'm working on my '66 Bristol so I thought he had mixed up the motors - so off it came and the other went back on.
Still nowt - we had blown two starter motors and Sir calculated that to start the three engines and swap over the starter motor each time plus another 1/2 hour wait for the bowser would take us way over legal duty.
It took another hour to accommodate the pax and we had a briefing from the station chief about the BOAC chandelier incident (you've been watching too much James Bond) including the probability of having KGB with us.
The hotel was much as described - a bit like 1980s french hotel comfort - as was lunch - four hours waiting for watery cabbage and beef stew but we had a whale of a time.
We all met up and I figured (from the TV) that marching around in unknown uniforms - all we had -we could go where we want.
So Red Square, a couple of Orthodox churches (there is one on the south side of Green Park if you have never had the delight) - all of the time ignoring the queues.
This didn't work with Lenin's tomb although we jumped around 300 yards of it a soldier beckoned us into the queue 50 yards before the entrance.
We decided sod Lenin, went to a hotel to get a drink and warm up.
The starters arrived with some blokes to fit them and we departed with a nearly empty Trident 2 back to London.
It was obvious as something had been incorrectly done prior to our flight ex Heathrow as I never had any starter problems in the rest of my career.
IIRC there was a fusible clutch in the starter which broke with over torque and maybe it was just a question of alignment.
We weren't able to spend the Roubles so I bought the lot from the crew and gave them to eng who bought me a couple of Mink hats - I have hung on to mine (still serviceable as excellent quality) but didn't hang on to the wife so no idea where hers is 40+years on (nor her for that matter ;-))
AMSTRONG re Swiss Gva - Rio
while a bit of a thread drift an interesting operation from many aspects and one where I thought an ex meatbox pilot was going to kill us. As a coincidence I received a link from a well known BOAC 707 manager this morning
Le pilote Nicollier - rts.ch - Culture
going back twenty years but still gives an incite into how tough Switzerland can be and how good their pilots are.
I'll post later
rgds
I was flying as P2 ex Moscow and during engine start the motor didn't turn when it should have done. Just like the sim although it was the only time in "real" life that it happened to me.
The Skipper was ex Lancs (his son frequents these pages) and we had already got rid of the KGB on the aircraft as well as Auntie Betty's couriers (from first class of course) and their diplomatic bags.
Sir, along with P3 and moi thought "what has he" (or moi) "cocked up". It wasn't to be sorted so easily so our traveling engineer was hailed from First class.
IIRC (covers the whole post) we had engine 1 running and it was no 2 in the tail.
There is a procedure for a manual start (opening a valve wiv a stick) but that didn't work so we shut down and got some rickety steps which elf and safety would ban nowadays - even in Sheremetyevo.
The ground was covered in fast freezing slush with a blast coming off the Steppes and I volunteered to be the gofer but was wearing my winter wool uniform - so as a 23 year old I wouldn't be too cold.
We had to refuel as the procedure was going to take around an hour - with APU running and an allowance for engine 2 running for a half hour.
So eng removed no 2 starter and no 3, placed 3 starter on 2 and gave it a go.
Nowt.
The ramp looked a bit like my garage when I'm working on my '66 Bristol so I thought he had mixed up the motors - so off it came and the other went back on.
Still nowt - we had blown two starter motors and Sir calculated that to start the three engines and swap over the starter motor each time plus another 1/2 hour wait for the bowser would take us way over legal duty.
It took another hour to accommodate the pax and we had a briefing from the station chief about the BOAC chandelier incident (you've been watching too much James Bond) including the probability of having KGB with us.
The hotel was much as described - a bit like 1980s french hotel comfort - as was lunch - four hours waiting for watery cabbage and beef stew but we had a whale of a time.
We all met up and I figured (from the TV) that marching around in unknown uniforms - all we had -we could go where we want.
So Red Square, a couple of Orthodox churches (there is one on the south side of Green Park if you have never had the delight) - all of the time ignoring the queues.
This didn't work with Lenin's tomb although we jumped around 300 yards of it a soldier beckoned us into the queue 50 yards before the entrance.
We decided sod Lenin, went to a hotel to get a drink and warm up.
The starters arrived with some blokes to fit them and we departed with a nearly empty Trident 2 back to London.
It was obvious as something had been incorrectly done prior to our flight ex Heathrow as I never had any starter problems in the rest of my career.
IIRC there was a fusible clutch in the starter which broke with over torque and maybe it was just a question of alignment.
We weren't able to spend the Roubles so I bought the lot from the crew and gave them to eng who bought me a couple of Mink hats - I have hung on to mine (still serviceable as excellent quality) but didn't hang on to the wife so no idea where hers is 40+years on (nor her for that matter ;-))
AMSTRONG re Swiss Gva - Rio
while a bit of a thread drift an interesting operation from many aspects and one where I thought an ex meatbox pilot was going to kill us. As a coincidence I received a link from a well known BOAC 707 manager this morning
Le pilote Nicollier - rts.ch - Culture
going back twenty years but still gives an incite into how tough Switzerland can be and how good their pilots are.
I'll post later
rgds