G-WLAD British Midland and Airways Cymru
Thread Starter
G-WLAD British Midland and Airways Cymru
First of all thankyou to everyone who contributed to my BIA/Air Anglia thread.
Now then, does anybody know the circumstances that led to British Midland leasing this BAC 1-11 from Airways Cymru ? And how it ended up on the LBA-LHR route in October 1985 ?
In March 1985 BMA proudly replaced the Viscount with the DC-9 on the aforementioned flights (except for the weekends). The DC-9s in question were no spring chickens but decidedly more up to date than the Viscount. I recall the LBA management being quite chuffed at the arrival of the DC-9, coming just a few months after the runway extension had been opened. Then, after about seven months, G-WLAD appeared. The DC-9s were gone from LBA and didn't come back to displace the upstart 1-11 until March 1987.
Why did all this happen ? Where did the DC-9s go ? Why LBA ? Why not Teesside, or Edinburgh or Glasgow ?
By the way I usually like 1-11s. However I always thought using this noisy specimen on a new "DC-9 jet service" was something of a backwards step.
Now then, does anybody know the circumstances that led to British Midland leasing this BAC 1-11 from Airways Cymru ? And how it ended up on the LBA-LHR route in October 1985 ?
In March 1985 BMA proudly replaced the Viscount with the DC-9 on the aforementioned flights (except for the weekends). The DC-9s in question were no spring chickens but decidedly more up to date than the Viscount. I recall the LBA management being quite chuffed at the arrival of the DC-9, coming just a few months after the runway extension had been opened. Then, after about seven months, G-WLAD appeared. The DC-9s were gone from LBA and didn't come back to displace the upstart 1-11 until March 1987.
Why did all this happen ? Where did the DC-9s go ? Why LBA ? Why not Teesside, or Edinburgh or Glasgow ?
By the way I usually like 1-11s. However I always thought using this noisy specimen on a new "DC-9 jet service" was something of a backwards step.
Thread Starter
I didn't know that any of the DC9s had ever been stored whilst BMA had them, although it would obviously explain a shortage of jets. I knew BMA had started a gradual withdrawal of the Viscounts and one or two of those ended up at Teesside.
What year was the 'final' BMA DC-9 flight out of LBA?
I remember flying on a 'special' charter DC-9 to commemorate the last one.
Would be early 90's probably - I was doing my PPL at YAC at the time.
I remember flying on a 'special' charter DC-9 to commemorate the last one.
Would be early 90's probably - I was doing my PPL at YAC at the time.
I think the LBA route was, or could easily be adapted as, a closed diagram using a single aircraft. That would have simplified operation on what was presumably a 'damp' lease with Airways Cymru flightdeck but Midland cabin crew. Teeside might have been similar but IIRC by then had fewer daily rotations than LBA so a/c swapping onto other schedules more likley to be part of daily rotation..
Putting it on EDI or GLA would probably have seen it swapping between routes. Even if it had it's own diagram there would be a problem with differing capacity and seat layouts cp the nines (or 737). More so if weather or other operating exigencies meant a/c had to be 'bumped' forward to fulfil a delayed schedule.
Putting it on EDI or GLA would probably have seen it swapping between routes. Even if it had it's own diagram there would be a problem with differing capacity and seat layouts cp the nines (or 737). More so if weather or other operating exigencies meant a/c had to be 'bumped' forward to fulfil a delayed schedule.
Was this the time of Midland's expansion into Europe? I'd left by then. Maybe they were short of aircraft.
The 1-11 certainly appeared on MME from time to time. As did the leased 737-200, EI-BTR. And both Leeds and Teesside had five rotations a day. Teesside certainly contributed more revenue than Leeds.
The general (unpublished) policy was to put the "nines" on the prestigious trunk routes where there was competition. The Leeds and Teesside were captive market "cash cows", so had to make do with whatever was available. Hence the 1-11 and the leased "73".
So "our" DC9 often got stolen after the first morning (high-revenue) rotation, positioned to LHR/BFS/wherever if a "9" had gone tech., and we had to wait for a Viscount or spare "9" to position to Teesside to do the (much-delayed) mid-morning flight, which happened to be chock-full of interliners. And caused us much work in re-routing and placating the passengers.
Sir Michael was actually more of an "O'Leary" than was generally acknowledged. A cunning entrepreneur, or exploiter of captive markets? Discuss.
And us poor ground staff were the front-end of this juggling of aircraft and disruption. The regular punters could see through this cleverness more than "Ops" probably realised.
Another twist to this policy was to put the -30 series on routes like BFS, just to sabre-rattle against BA, even though the -10/-15s we had were bursting at the seams.
r
The 1-11 certainly appeared on MME from time to time. As did the leased 737-200, EI-BTR. And both Leeds and Teesside had five rotations a day. Teesside certainly contributed more revenue than Leeds.
The general (unpublished) policy was to put the "nines" on the prestigious trunk routes where there was competition. The Leeds and Teesside were captive market "cash cows", so had to make do with whatever was available. Hence the 1-11 and the leased "73".
So "our" DC9 often got stolen after the first morning (high-revenue) rotation, positioned to LHR/BFS/wherever if a "9" had gone tech., and we had to wait for a Viscount or spare "9" to position to Teesside to do the (much-delayed) mid-morning flight, which happened to be chock-full of interliners. And caused us much work in re-routing and placating the passengers.
Sir Michael was actually more of an "O'Leary" than was generally acknowledged. A cunning entrepreneur, or exploiter of captive markets? Discuss.
And us poor ground staff were the front-end of this juggling of aircraft and disruption. The regular punters could see through this cleverness more than "Ops" probably realised.
Another twist to this policy was to put the -30 series on routes like BFS, just to sabre-rattle against BA, even though the -10/-15s we had were bursting at the seams.
r
Thread Starter
Airbanda, could you please explain what you mean by "diagram " in this context ?
On reflection, had BMA used the 1-11 on the Edinburgh and Glasgow routes they would have been up against BA's relatively new 757s. At Leeds BMA had the Heathrow market to themselves so could probably get away with using anything.
It was a damp lease I believe. IIRC Jeff Price was the senior captain.
BMA must have scored a good deal with Airways Cymru. I wonder why they didn't seek out more 737-200s, or even more DC9s ?
On reflection, had BMA used the 1-11 on the Edinburgh and Glasgow routes they would have been up against BA's relatively new 757s. At Leeds BMA had the Heathrow market to themselves so could probably get away with using anything.
It was a damp lease I believe. IIRC Jeff Price was the senior captain.
BMA must have scored a good deal with Airways Cymru. I wonder why they didn't seek out more 737-200s, or even more DC9s ?
Using diagram to mean the daily schedule of a particular aircraft. A W leg diagram, as operated by Britannia in their 76 on operation at Leeds, would be MAN>PMI>LBA>PMI>MAN.
Maybe I'm confusing aviation and railway terminology.
Maybe I'm confusing aviation and railway terminology.
Thread Starter
Thanks Airbanda, I think I understand. I've used "pattern" in that context but not "diagram".
The last BMA DC9 flight from LBA was in 1994. Thereafter it was a mix of Fokker 70/100 and 737 Classic until the A319 appeared in 2006. Then Embraers, then nowt ...
The last BMA DC9 flight from LBA was in 1994. Thereafter it was a mix of Fokker 70/100 and 737 Classic until the A319 appeared in 2006. Then Embraers, then nowt ...
The GWLAD operation was 'interesting' to say the least. Despite the 'normal' LBA menu of low cloud, crosswinds, icy runways etc, the aircraft rarely diverted. In fact there was one particular day when a slippery runway with crosswind precluded most of the other flights, but GWLAD completed all five rotations to Heathrow!
I suspect it was quite popular with the passengers if not with the local residents!
H49
I suspect it was quite popular with the passengers if not with the local residents!
H49
I'd guess that times were a bit hard at the airline (they folded in 1988), hence they were trying to avoid the extra costs of diversion.
In a similar vein, I once watched a 1-11 launch off 05 at Teesside looking quite heavy and which immediately started dumping water-meth. Everyone else was using 23, but this chap appeared to want to take advantage of a very slight breeze off the sea. Most strange, I thought.
I had a contact at the handling agent. "Oh Yes", he said, "We were a bit creative with the load sheet, us and the captain". It appeared to be tankering quite a lot of fuel.
A week later, the airline had ceased flying.
In a similar vein, I once watched a 1-11 launch off 05 at Teesside looking quite heavy and which immediately started dumping water-meth. Everyone else was using 23, but this chap appeared to want to take advantage of a very slight breeze off the sea. Most strange, I thought.
I had a contact at the handling agent. "Oh Yes", he said, "We were a bit creative with the load sheet, us and the captain". It appeared to be tankering quite a lot of fuel.
A week later, the airline had ceased flying.
Thread Starter
H49,
I used to work with an ex-BMA DM at LBA. I am informed that G-WLAD was also a very reliable aeroplane (but then so were the Viscounts and DC9s) but some of the seating was rather old fashioned. Lloyd loom, wicker or something equally quaint ! I don't know what the passengers thought about the aeroplane. Academic really when they didn't have the alternative of a BA 757 (or Trident). I do know that both the 1-11 and DC9 were equally capable of waking folk up at 7 a.m. Proper jets in those days !
I remember the sistership, G-YMRU, turning up every now and then sporting its Airways Cymru colours. Must have confounded the passengers even more.
I used to work with an ex-BMA DM at LBA. I am informed that G-WLAD was also a very reliable aeroplane (but then so were the Viscounts and DC9s) but some of the seating was rather old fashioned. Lloyd loom, wicker or something equally quaint ! I don't know what the passengers thought about the aeroplane. Academic really when they didn't have the alternative of a BA 757 (or Trident). I do know that both the 1-11 and DC9 were equally capable of waking folk up at 7 a.m. Proper jets in those days !
I remember the sistership, G-YMRU, turning up every now and then sporting its Airways Cymru colours. Must have confounded the passengers even more.
I remember the sistership, G-YMRU, turning up every now and then sporting its Airways Cymru colours. Must have confounded the passengers even more.
Matched for aspect ratio on fin of HPR-7 v F27 rather than house style?
Thread Starter
Airbanda. Funny that you should mention the paintjob on WLAD. It was the first aeroplane I saw in the Diamond scheme and I think it was just the Quebecair colours with some extra paint and design here and there. And then it was adopted by the BMA fleet proper. But that's my prejudiced opinion coz I never liked the Diamond scheme. Even compared to the two-tone blue stripes it looked cheap.
The Leeds BMA regular punters always seemed a hardy lot, used to frequent weather delays, so I guess that they would just be glad to get in and out more or less on time, never mind the colour of the seats!
Thread Starter
331. The LBA passengers had to put up with one or two eventualities. Obviously the weather was frequently a major factor, as it still is, but BMA put on an excellent service. For the first five years LBA-LHR was a Viscount operation. Once the runway was extended then the variety started. The aforementioned WLAD, F27, Eurocity DHC7, dammit even a DC9 ! And the ATP too. Wot a mix. Sad to see BMA at Leeds go from one route to several to nothing. Same story elsewhere though.
H49. There is a private message for you.
H49. There is a private message for you.
Last edited by Mooncrest; 12th Nov 2014 at 15:48.
As a student, I used to live under the 32 centreline in Headlingley, and as my dad, plus a number of other family members used to work for the airline, I almost felt like saluting as the Viscounts passed.
I'm always surprised the the two runway excursions were so successfully "hushed up".
The British Midland ticket desk staff at Leeds were a fearless, stoic "breed apart", well-used to rerouting dozens of interliners due to missed connections, such were the frequency of delays.
I seem to recall that Capt. Bruce Morgan got a "nine" in (pre-extension) during stiff favourable winds due to Teesside being out. It was a change for Leeds winds to work to advantage.
I'm always surprised the the two runway excursions were so successfully "hushed up".
The British Midland ticket desk staff at Leeds were a fearless, stoic "breed apart", well-used to rerouting dozens of interliners due to missed connections, such were the frequency of delays.
I seem to recall that Capt. Bruce Morgan got a "nine" in (pre-extension) during stiff favourable winds due to Teesside being out. It was a change for Leeds winds to work to advantage.
Last edited by Midland 331; 12th Nov 2014 at 20:20.
Thread Starter
If you haven't already seen it type "Glasgow Airport 1984" into YouTube and watch the film from that year. It features G-BFZL in a semi-starring role along with a few DC9s and Caledonian, Britannia etc. I suspect at the time WLAD was still in Canada.
I seem to recall that Capt. Bruce Morgan got a "nine" in (pre-extension) during stiff favourable winds due to Teesside being out. It was a change for Leeds winds to work to advantage.
There's also an 'on this day' moment here. 13 November 1976 was one of those days when much of the country was in fog. Low lying stuff so LBA for once was out of it. May have been a couple of prop diversions but the star was an Aviaco DC-9, EC-CTS. Out of either Las Palmas or Tenerife for Birmingham.
Outbound load was only about 50 and he went direct. Used rather more runway than the Britt 737s, took 33 (oddly in near still air) and rotated around the 10/28 intersection.
If the One-Eleven was leased by the hour, Leeds would give the least flying hours per day of the BMA jet requirements at the time.
Airways Cymru had a hard time financially, they got their One-Elevens but never got anything in the way of a good long-term charter/IT contract for them (the original aim), so doubtless were glad to get some good flying hours out of one of them.
Must have been a couple of years before this, but three of us went from LHR to Leeds on a business day trip. Returning to the airport in the evening the cloud/fog had come down (a regular event there) and the Viscount hadn't made it in. There was a coach being organised which was taking a while and not really what we had paid airfares for, so we surrendered our reservations and got a cab off the Leeds/Bradford terminal front straight to the Heathrow T1 car park. Driver didn't quite seem to understand where Heathrow was exactly, and it was rather foggy on the M1, but it was a significant saving of time for us, and also cost when we cashed our tickets back in to the travel agent.
I never flew in G-WLAD as such, although I remember seeing it as such once on the Palma apron, but before it's stint with Quebecair in Canada it had originally been G-ATPI with British Eagle from new, and was the first jet I ever rode in, Liverpool to London, departing off the old runway at Speke.
Airways Cymru had a hard time financially, they got their One-Elevens but never got anything in the way of a good long-term charter/IT contract for them (the original aim), so doubtless were glad to get some good flying hours out of one of them.
Must have been a couple of years before this, but three of us went from LHR to Leeds on a business day trip. Returning to the airport in the evening the cloud/fog had come down (a regular event there) and the Viscount hadn't made it in. There was a coach being organised which was taking a while and not really what we had paid airfares for, so we surrendered our reservations and got a cab off the Leeds/Bradford terminal front straight to the Heathrow T1 car park. Driver didn't quite seem to understand where Heathrow was exactly, and it was rather foggy on the M1, but it was a significant saving of time for us, and also cost when we cashed our tickets back in to the travel agent.
I never flew in G-WLAD as such, although I remember seeing it as such once on the Palma apron, but before it's stint with Quebecair in Canada it had originally been G-ATPI with British Eagle from new, and was the first jet I ever rode in, Liverpool to London, departing off the old runway at Speke.