BIA and Air Anglia

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Porrohman

I seem to recall that Air Anglia operated some piston airliners out of EDI in the late 70s. One was a Swiss Convair 440 leased from Air Sea Services and another was a Martin 404 that was briefly leased from an American operator. There may have been others. I think they were used mainly on the newly introduced Paris route while waiting for the F28 to be delivered. Does anyone else recall / have more details of these operations? I tried searching Google and Wikipedia but couldn't find any mention of them. Martin 404s hardly ever operated in Europe AFAIK so its appearance would have been something of rarity.

I'm actually not aware of any Martin 202/404 ever crossing either the Atlantic, so wonder if this is a mis-sighting of a Comvair, although most such mis-sightings were normally the other way round, of Martins being mis-identified as the more common Convairs. Any more detail ?

[Porrohman]

Originally Posted by WHBM

I'm actually not aware of any Martin 202/404 ever crossing either the Atlantic, so wonder if this is a mis-sighting of a Comvair, although most such mis-sightings were normally the other way round, of Martins being mis-identified as the more common Convairs. Any more detail ?

I'm sure it was a Martin 404. The year was probably 1977 and I think it was leased from Air South for a month or two. The only other occasion that I'm aware of a civilian Matin 404 operating in Europe was when Frank Sinatra used one for his 1962 tour.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Unti...d1iWHwadNOA%3D

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

[Airbanda]

Originally Posted by Porrohman

I seem to recall that Air Anglia operated some piston airliners out of EDI in the late 70s. One was a Swiss Convair 440 leased from Air Sea Services and another was a Martin 404 that was briefly leased from an American operator. There may have been others. I think they were used mainly on the newly introduced Paris route while waiting for the F28 to be delivered. Does anyone else recall / have more details of these operations? I tried searching Google and Wikipedia but couldn't find any mention of them. Martin 404s hardly ever operated in Europe AFAIK so its appearance would have been something of rarity.

They certainly used DC-3 equipment until maybe 75/6. One was used on the mostly F-27 equipped NWI>LBA>EDI>ABZ service for the Friday evening s/b rotation returning north on Sunday evening, presumably to facilitate maintenance or a/c swap.

I was a pretty active spotter and Leeds between 74 and 79. I'd be surprised if AQ operating a Martin 404 wasn't news at the time regarding the type being more or less unknown in Europe. I'd also be surprised if leasing an N reg type which had no UK certification ad hoc from a small US outfit would have got past the CAA though I seem to remember BMA operating US reg DC-9 kit on Liverpool and Teesside services pending type's UK certification.

[Porrohman]

The Paris service was timetabled for the F27 but was sometimes operated by a piston-liner in 1977-78 due to a shortage of F27s. I often wondered what passengers thought when the timetabled F27 was replaced with something vintage that produced huge clouds of smoke on start up. They may also have been used on the Amsterdam service from time to time but I mainly recall them on the Paris service. Around that time, Air Anglia leased F27 PH-ARO (an easy name to remember) from Fokker but was still sometimes short of aircraft to cover the route network plus scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. I don't recall the piston liners being used on the ABZ-EDI-LBA-NWI route.

I have found photos of the Air Sea Services 440 and the Scanbee 340 in my collection but haven't found any of the 404 yet.

[Wander00]

OUA...ops-- would it have been AIRUK then, would have been late 60s as flying squadrons left Watton Sep 69 (I wrote the Admin and Ops orders for move to Cottesmore). 115 were the other side of the airfield so our paths seldom crossed. Sorry if it is a red herring

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Originally Posted by Wander00

OUA...ops-- would it have been AIRUK then, would have been late 60s as flying squadrons left Watton Sep 69 (I wrote the Admin and Ops orders for move to Cottesmore). 115 were the other side of the airfield so our paths seldom crossed. Sorry if it is a red herring

Not at all a Red Herring. Air Anglia came about as a merger in 1970 of Norfolk Airways, Anglian Air Charter and Rig Air. These outfits' origins went back to Norfolk in the 1950s and the bosses, Jim Crampton and Wilbur Wright (both ex RAF) would seasonally employ any suitably qualified pilots for pleasure flying and it's possible they might then have employed pilots ad hoc from RAF Watton particularly for Summer Weekends and Bank Holidays. In later years Air Anglia merged with British Island Airways and others to form Air UK.

[jensdad]

Originally Posted by OUAQUKGF Ops

the bosses, Jim Crampton and Wilbur Wright

Hence the reg's of the F28's G-JCWW and G-WWJC?

[Herod]

Hence the reg's of the F28's G-JCWW and G-WWJC?

Yep. Those were the days of hope for jets. I joined late '78 as an F27 captain (after 6 months RHS), with the prospect of an F28 a couple of years down the line. The jet (BAe 146) arrived for me ten years and 6,000 hours F27 later. But they were fun years.

[Mooncrest]

F27 PH-ARO became, I think, G-BFDS when it was transferred to the UK register. I remember seeing it at LBA for the first time in early 1978. It still wore the Linair livery of dark blue and white with a stylised 'L' on the tailfin.

[jensdad]

Originally Posted by Herod

Yep. Those were the days of hope for jets. I joined late '78 as an F27 captain (after 6 months RHS), with the prospect of an F28 a couple of years down the line. The jet (BAe 146) arrived for me ten years and 6,000 hours F27 later. But they were fun years.

Pretty sure I'd have been standing on the roof terrace at Newcastle with my dad watching you do one of those super-quick turnarounds between Aberdeen and Norwich. Loved the F27s.

[Herod]

Loved the F27s.

You and me both, jensdad. A "Ronseal" aeroplane, if you know what I mean. Rugged, basic, but a trusty old beast. I won't hear a word against it.

[Porrohman]

My first ever flight was on an Air Anglia F27 in 1977. It was an air experience flight from EDI and routed over Dunbar, then a 360 orbit over Leuchars, to Stonehaven, Perth, over the Forth bridges and a steep turn over Dalmeny Park for very short finals to runway 25 (as it was then) at EDI. It was a warm summers day with sunshine and scattered small clouds and most of the flight was at 3,000 - 4,000 feet along the coast. This resulted in fantastic views through the huge F27 windows and a really enjoyable roller-coaster ride as we hit thermal after thermal. We had to climb above the clouds between Stonehaven and Perth but I presume the rest of the route was flown VFR which must have been an interesting change for the crew.

[DH106]

Originally Posted by Mooncrest

F27 PH-ARO became, I think, G-BFDS when it was transferred to the UK register. I remember seeing it at LBA for the first time in early 1978. It still wore the Linair livery of dark blue and white with a stylised 'L' on the tailfin.

Yes, I remember PH-ARO at LBA in that livery vividly

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

https://www.francisfrith.com/uk/cais..._memory-476681


https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/19383

[condor17]

Still have a couple of rejection letters from AA from various 70's times . No hard feelings , as the best is the advert slogan '' Bigger than you think '' . Followed a while later by '' Quicker than you think '' .

The best , managed to blag a '' Bigger than you think '' tee-shirt from Julie ? in advertising / promo dept ? at NWI . Whilst staff tkt hitching the NWI-LHR rte.
Proudly presented to a 'gurl friend of the time in LHR area . Did I get a personal fitting ? Lips are sealed as she was a lady .

rgds condor

[jensdad]

Originally Posted by condor17

hitching the NWI-LHR rte.

Bygone days, eh? What were loads like on the Norwich-Heathrow route? Were the roads and railways really that slow in those days?

[Offchocks]

Originally Posted by jensdad

Bygone days, eh? What were loads like on the Norwich-Heathrow route? Were the roads and railways really that slow in those days?

I did quite a few NWI-LHR and they were quite full, but that was in the Navajo!

[Self loading bear]

Originally Posted by Offchocks

I did quite a few NWI-LHR and they were quite full, but that was in the Navajo!

Might that have been mostly foreign offshore bears?

I have once taken a cab from Great Yarmouth to Stansted.
That already took 2,5 hours.

Heathrow would have been 3 hrs?

[plassey1]

Heathrow service was mainly interline passengers