The Wright brothers just glided in 1903. They flew in 1908.
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It seems to me that some of the Wright Brothers' Patents would NOT have been granted by European Patent Offices.
Unlike the US Patent Office in those days, European ones conducted substantive searches through domestic AND foreign patents to check for "prior art", "Known" and "Obvious" material. I therefore do not accept the Wrights' Patents as proof that they invented the aeroplane or flight.
Unlike the US Patent Office in those days, European ones conducted substantive searches through domestic AND foreign patents to check for "prior art", "Known" and "Obvious" material. I therefore do not accept the Wrights' Patents as proof that they invented the aeroplane or flight.
Joy ride
I think we can gather that you are better versed than most of us on the patents business.
AFAIK although some payments were made to the Wrights by the U.K., for example, those pioneers in Germany and France largely ignored the transatlantic patent hullabaloo and just got on with further advancing the progress of their aviation sectors.
Again "airplane" versus "aeroplane" camps.
I ,for one, would very much value any further comments you might consider to add on this issue.
I think we can gather that you are better versed than most of us on the patents business.
AFAIK although some payments were made to the Wrights by the U.K., for example, those pioneers in Germany and France largely ignored the transatlantic patent hullabaloo and just got on with further advancing the progress of their aviation sectors.
Again "airplane" versus "aeroplane" camps.
I ,for one, would very much value any further comments you might consider to add on this issue.
Last edited by Haraka; 13th Jun 2014 at 08:44.
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Simplex said - Lewis A. Boswell, patent published May 26, 1903, Three Axis Control
In the Wright's patent infringement suit against Louis Paulhan, the defendant sought to prevent a preliminary injunction by arguing that the Wright patent was anticipated by Boswell. He lost.
Per one author of the time (1912), Charles Brian Haward, "earlier patents will be disregarded where they have not been shown to be operative.... [such that] a patent for a useful device will not be held void because of an earlier patent for a useless device." Per the court:
"Success can not be anticipated by failure"
You're trying to summarily re-litigate with a drive-by citation, even though it was already decided by a judge after hearing arguments from two competing sides, with heavily vested interests, way back in 1910.
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1) If the question is "Who invented the modern turbo jet engine?" then the answer is Maxime Guillaume in 1921
See: "Propulseur par réaction sur l'air", patent no. 534,801 (filed: 3 May 1921; issued: 13 January 1922).
Download the patent and study the jet engine which appear on the last page. This is undeniably the first known turbojet engine.
2) If the question is who build the first jet plane then this is Henri Coanda in 1910.
It is not clear whether the plane flew or not and most likely it did not fly but the description given by Max de Nansouty in his book published in 1914 is clear. A piston engine turns a turbine (compressor) that blows the air rearward, pushing the plane. The jet of air is also mixed with the exhaust gases of the piston engine for maximizing the efficiency of the propulsion. In a 1910 patent, Coanda himself called the motor of his plane "jet engine".
"On voit que l'aéroplane Coanda ne manque pas de particularités ingénieuses et intéressantes, mais la plus curieuse consiste dans le remplacement de l'hélice par un turbo-propulseur pour actionner l'appareil.
Le turbo-propulseur est situé à l'extrémité avant du fuselage ; dans une sorte de capot conique. A l'arrière de ce capot est placé un moteur de 50 chevaux fixé dans le fuselage en avant du siège du pilote. Ce moteur donne le mouvement de rotation à une petite turbine qui tourne à raison de 4.000 tours par minute. Les aubes de cette turbine ont trois courbures : la courbure d'aspiration, de raccord et de propulsion.
A l'avant de la turbine est placé un distributeur comportant des aubes hélicoïdales et, à l'arrière, un diffuseur conique qui rejette a l'arrière l'air détendu par son passage dans la turbine. Comme du fait de cette détente, l'air se trouve refroidi, pour éviter ce refroidissement, les gaz d'échappement du moteur sont envoyés dans les aubes du distributeur d'avant, ce qui permet de réchauffer l'air admis dans la turbine.
L'effort de traction du turbo-propulseur est indépendant du mouvement de translation de l'appareil."
Source:Max de Nansouty, "Aérostation, aviation", Boivin (Paris), 1914, Aérostation, aviation, par Max de Nansouty,...
Coanda 1910 plane and turbine
It should be mentioned that a much powerful plane working on the same principle (cold thrust) and not using afterburners flew at 200 km/h, about three decades later.
"On the cold thrust alone, the Campini Caproni was capable of speeds over 200 kph, however with the addition of the 'afterburner', speeds easily doubled to 400kph."
See: Delta 1/72 Campini Caproni Preview
3) If the question is who built the first practical jet planes then the answer is Germans, shortly before and during WWII.
See: "Propulseur par réaction sur l'air", patent no. 534,801 (filed: 3 May 1921; issued: 13 January 1922).
Download the patent and study the jet engine which appear on the last page. This is undeniably the first known turbojet engine.
2) If the question is who build the first jet plane then this is Henri Coanda in 1910.
It is not clear whether the plane flew or not and most likely it did not fly but the description given by Max de Nansouty in his book published in 1914 is clear. A piston engine turns a turbine (compressor) that blows the air rearward, pushing the plane. The jet of air is also mixed with the exhaust gases of the piston engine for maximizing the efficiency of the propulsion. In a 1910 patent, Coanda himself called the motor of his plane "jet engine".
"On voit que l'aéroplane Coanda ne manque pas de particularités ingénieuses et intéressantes, mais la plus curieuse consiste dans le remplacement de l'hélice par un turbo-propulseur pour actionner l'appareil.
Le turbo-propulseur est situé à l'extrémité avant du fuselage ; dans une sorte de capot conique. A l'arrière de ce capot est placé un moteur de 50 chevaux fixé dans le fuselage en avant du siège du pilote. Ce moteur donne le mouvement de rotation à une petite turbine qui tourne à raison de 4.000 tours par minute. Les aubes de cette turbine ont trois courbures : la courbure d'aspiration, de raccord et de propulsion.
A l'avant de la turbine est placé un distributeur comportant des aubes hélicoïdales et, à l'arrière, un diffuseur conique qui rejette a l'arrière l'air détendu par son passage dans la turbine. Comme du fait de cette détente, l'air se trouve refroidi, pour éviter ce refroidissement, les gaz d'échappement du moteur sont envoyés dans les aubes du distributeur d'avant, ce qui permet de réchauffer l'air admis dans la turbine.
L'effort de traction du turbo-propulseur est indépendant du mouvement de translation de l'appareil."
Source:Max de Nansouty, "Aérostation, aviation", Boivin (Paris), 1914, Aérostation, aviation, par Max de Nansouty,...
Coanda 1910 plane and turbine
It should be mentioned that a much powerful plane working on the same principle (cold thrust) and not using afterburners flew at 200 km/h, about three decades later.
"On the cold thrust alone, the Campini Caproni was capable of speeds over 200 kph, however with the addition of the 'afterburner', speeds easily doubled to 400kph."
See: Delta 1/72 Campini Caproni Preview
3) If the question is who built the first practical jet planes then the answer is Germans, shortly before and during WWII.
Last edited by simplex1; 13th Jun 2014 at 15:35.
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who invented the jet engine?
If you take "jet engine" as meaning "reaction gas turbine" there seem to have been multiple independent processes of development, and also interchange of ideas. Just like the development of the aerodyne.
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I am more versed in inventing things (all VERY minor compared to planes, jet engines, radar etc.!) My familiarity with patents is more applying and paying for them and a Patent Agent, but overs the years I have picked up a little about the history of patents and inventions. It would take a Patent Lawyer to give a really clear account of the technicalities, and even these can be subject to legal wrangles!
jondc9 The Jet Engine is yet another example of an invention with a long and noble history dating from a VERY long time before it was "invented" for aeroplanes!
Ultimately turbines are a combination of the key elements of levers and wheels, like most mechanical inventions, so in a sense Archimedes' Screw could be called the first recorded one.
Various turbines were invented over the centuries, but the first person to make and use a practical turbine engine, powered by steam, was Charles Algernon Parsons.
Various other developments and progress towards a jet engine for aircraft occurred in various nations by various people, culminating in Sir Frank Whittle from 1930.
Whittle was massively messed around by the British government, sadly still far too common, and they/the Patent Office saw no future for his engine and did not even bother to classify his Patent application, which is bog standard procedure for every invention with the slightest possibility of having any military potential.
Whittle was left struggling to pay for patents, was grossly under-funded and then forced by the government to work with the Rover CAR company to develop the jet!
Brain-dead buffle-headed bureaucratic buffoonery of the highest order!
Pabst von Ohain was thus free to study Whittle's patents and commence work in Germany, with massive state backing and encouragement. The Heinkel He 178 claimed the first flight for a turbo-jet plane, with an engine based on parts of Whittle's patent. This described the two main forms of turbo jet but stated that centrifugal, though weaker, would be more reliable with the available technology; he clearly stated that axial flow would be best long term, but unreliable until new technology - particularly metallurgy - was developed. He was right.
Juan Trippe apparently gave Whittle a life-time pass on Pan Am for what his work had done for airlines, but I hope I have made it clear that the work of Whittle and others was part of a very long process.
jondc9 The Jet Engine is yet another example of an invention with a long and noble history dating from a VERY long time before it was "invented" for aeroplanes!
Ultimately turbines are a combination of the key elements of levers and wheels, like most mechanical inventions, so in a sense Archimedes' Screw could be called the first recorded one.
Various turbines were invented over the centuries, but the first person to make and use a practical turbine engine, powered by steam, was Charles Algernon Parsons.
Various other developments and progress towards a jet engine for aircraft occurred in various nations by various people, culminating in Sir Frank Whittle from 1930.
Whittle was massively messed around by the British government, sadly still far too common, and they/the Patent Office saw no future for his engine and did not even bother to classify his Patent application, which is bog standard procedure for every invention with the slightest possibility of having any military potential.
Whittle was left struggling to pay for patents, was grossly under-funded and then forced by the government to work with the Rover CAR company to develop the jet!
Brain-dead buffle-headed bureaucratic buffoonery of the highest order!
Pabst von Ohain was thus free to study Whittle's patents and commence work in Germany, with massive state backing and encouragement. The Heinkel He 178 claimed the first flight for a turbo-jet plane, with an engine based on parts of Whittle's patent. This described the two main forms of turbo jet but stated that centrifugal, though weaker, would be more reliable with the available technology; he clearly stated that axial flow would be best long term, but unreliable until new technology - particularly metallurgy - was developed. He was right.
Juan Trippe apparently gave Whittle a life-time pass on Pan Am for what his work had done for airlines, but I hope I have made it clear that the work of Whittle and others was part of a very long process.
Just an observation on the ethics of discussion and respecting the views of others ( and we all can fall in to the trap when it gets heated, so don't take this personally Jondc9) :
re: Censorship on PPRUNE?
Jondc9 On PPruNe 27 Oct 2006
"There is no single absolute authority for what we write about and no one must censor another persons views."
re: The Wright brothers just glided in 1903. They flew in 1908
Jondc9 On PPruNe 12 June 2014
"mods, do what you like. but if you are pilots , shut down this thread"
re: Censorship on PPRUNE?
Jondc9 On PPruNe 27 Oct 2006
"There is no single absolute authority for what we write about and no one must censor another persons views."
re: The Wright brothers just glided in 1903. They flew in 1908
Jondc9 On PPruNe 12 June 2014
"mods, do what you like. but if you are pilots , shut down this thread"
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haraka
in 2006 I didn't know how pprune worked.
now I've seen pprune censor (capriciously) the mh370 discussion and others.
I stand by my earlier statement for freedom of speech in the USA
but the pprune site isn't protected by the US constitution.
hmmmm, maybe I should contact a lawyer?
in 2006 I didn't know how pprune worked.
now I've seen pprune censor (capriciously) the mh370 discussion and others.
I stand by my earlier statement for freedom of speech in the USA
but the pprune site isn't protected by the US constitution.
hmmmm, maybe I should contact a lawyer?
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I know of the Coanda engine/plane and an Italian one which also apparently flew, but I do not have sufficient knowledge of them (yet) to make an informed appraisal of their importance, but they certainly are included in my stated opinion that many people of various nationalities made significant contributions to the Jet Engine over a very long period of time.
Italian one which also apparently flew, but I do not have sufficient knowledge of them
3) If the question is who built the first practical jet planes then the answer is Germans, shortly before and during WWII.
And to the question - what was the first practical propeller driven aircraft?
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If the question is "What was the first practical airplane having a 100% certified existence?" then both planes built by the Voisin brothers for Farman and Delagrange in 1907 can be considered the first practical planes.
If the question is "What was the first claimed practical airplane?" then the title can go to Gustav Whitehead's No. 22 flying machine.
If the question is "What was the first claimed practical airplane?" then the title can go to Gustav Whitehead's No. 22 flying machine.
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Out of curiosity, how many of you have previously heard of "Jane's All the Word's Aircraft?" If so, do you regard it as the "bible of aviation history"? Thanks.
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I've heard of janes for many many years. I do NOT consider it the bible of aviation.
I was flying a particular type of airplane. Looked it up in Janes and it was there. But the numbers Janes had published were not what was in the flight manual. sorry janes!
Janes is a handy reference for many people, but there are better sources of information.
I was flying a particular type of airplane. Looked it up in Janes and it was there. But the numbers Janes had published were not what was in the flight manual. sorry janes!
Janes is a handy reference for many people, but there are better sources of information.
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Thanks for the reply re "Jane's All the World's Aircraft." Can you provide some details on the type of information? Performance specs? News? Is it more for use by commercial pilots or by general aviation pilots? Or, perhaps, both?
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The Jane's empire starts with (Fred) Jane's _All the World's Fighting Ships_, in 1898, which was used as a single vol. identification manual aboard ships of the Royal Navy.
I don't know how good it was, then, in comparison with publications in other languages, but it got established in Britain as the standard reference. Hence, a publishing empire. Commercial success has consequences.
I don't know how good it was, then, in comparison with publications in other languages, but it got established in Britain as the standard reference. Hence, a publishing empire. Commercial success has consequences.
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Hi eetrojan
I would have thought that anybody seriously interested in aviation history would have come across "Jane's", especially in these days of Internet communication!
I wouldn't call it "the bible of aviation history", I would say that it's far too expensive to achieve universal use, it's a pity it isn't available in every hotel room around the World though
However, there is a free copy of the 1913 edition for download at
The Project Gutenberg eBook of Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1913, Edited by Fred T. Jane
I regard it's main claim to fame as it being the World's longest running comprehensive reference work on World Aviation, having been published annually since 1909 to the present day with only a few breaks due to wartime.
Jane's All the World's Aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Note that I did say it was an annual and I didn't say it was the first aviation publication, as I believe that accolade does belong to the French with L’Aérophile (1893-1947)
Originally Posted by eetrojan
Out of curiosity, how many of you have previously heard of "Jane's All the Word's Aircraft?" If so, do you regard it as the "bible of aviation history"? Thanks.
I wouldn't call it "the bible of aviation history", I would say that it's far too expensive to achieve universal use, it's a pity it isn't available in every hotel room around the World though
However, there is a free copy of the 1913 edition for download at
The Project Gutenberg eBook of Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1913, Edited by Fred T. Jane
Originally Posted by eetrojan
Thanks for the reply re "Jane's All the World's Aircraft." Can you provide some details on the type of information? Performance specs? News? Is it more for use by commercial pilots or by general aviation pilots? Or, perhaps, both?
Jane's All the World's Aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Note that I did say it was an annual and I didn't say it was the first aviation publication, as I believe that accolade does belong to the French with L’Aérophile (1893-1947)