Flying off the Deck
Night deck landings
Quote
"There are only two sorts of people in the world, those who have done night deck landings, and those who have not; and it is impossible for the former to explain matters to the latter."
"There are only two sorts of people in the world, those who have done night deck landings, and those who have not; and it is impossible for the former to explain matters to the latter."
Here is quite a good YouTube video of a fixed wing night deck landing on a carrier - the first 20 seconds are total black, presumably he was still in cloud then. Best viewed full screen as the light sources are minimal:
Quote
Sea Vixen Observers must have had balls of steel to sit in that cubby hole with only a tiny side window to see out of during a carrier landing.
And during a catapult launch!
I had a colleague who was a former Sea Vixen pilot and he told me his pre-takeoff briefing to a new observer was along the lines of "watch my legs - if anything goes wrong, I won't have time to give an order to eject before I go!"
Sea Vixen Observers must have had balls of steel to sit in that cubby hole with only a tiny side window to see out of during a carrier landing.
And during a catapult launch!
I had a colleague who was a former Sea Vixen pilot and he told me his pre-takeoff briefing to a new observer was along the lines of "watch my legs - if anything goes wrong, I won't have time to give an order to eject before I go!"
Following on from Democritus' video, I stumbled on this excellent side-by-side video of day and night landings in an S3:
Boy, those runway-end lights come very close!
A question for the experts, something that hadn't occurred to me before. Since the TDZ is moving away, at say 20 kts, is the glideslope angle of the mirror and other carrier-based aids increased to allow for the movement, so that that the pilot follows a normal glide path?
Concerning the Sea Vixen "coal hole", what was the thinking behind that decision? I would have thought it better to have another pair of eyes looking around and then make arrangements to view the radar with a rubber eyepiece or even a hood, like Tiger Moths and Magisters.
Boy, those runway-end lights come very close!
A question for the experts, something that hadn't occurred to me before. Since the TDZ is moving away, at say 20 kts, is the glideslope angle of the mirror and other carrier-based aids increased to allow for the movement, so that that the pilot follows a normal glide path?
Concerning the Sea Vixen "coal hole", what was the thinking behind that decision? I would have thought it better to have another pair of eyes looking around and then make arrangements to view the radar with a rubber eyepiece or even a hood, like Tiger Moths and Magisters.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Less drag with a coalhole.
True story : Sea Vixen ready for catshot, Observer notices wing fold indicator showing wings not correctly locked. Shouts to pilot and ejects at the end of the catshot. Pilot suddenly finds he has no Observer but ops normal, albeit with a lot of wind noise. Flies around and burns off fuel and lands back on ok. Observer picked up ok by the carrier. All's well that ends well.
True story : Sea Vixen ready for catshot, Observer notices wing fold indicator showing wings not correctly locked. Shouts to pilot and ejects at the end of the catshot. Pilot suddenly finds he has no Observer but ops normal, albeit with a lot of wind noise. Flies around and burns off fuel and lands back on ok. Observer picked up ok by the carrier. All's well that ends well.
I went to the funeral last year of an RAF fighter pilot so intrepid even his squadron mates had noticed (many years after his retirement, so he got away with it.)
He was asked in my hearing once whether he had ever been frightened while flying. He replied 'Only twice, the first time was when I had the opportunity to do a deck landing in the observer's seat in a Sea Vixen, the other was the subsequent cat take off'.
I was told by an FAA pilot that their unofficial motto was ' Flare to land, squat to pee'.
He was asked in my hearing once whether he had ever been frightened while flying. He replied 'Only twice, the first time was when I had the opportunity to do a deck landing in the observer's seat in a Sea Vixen, the other was the subsequent cat take off'.
I was told by an FAA pilot that their unofficial motto was ' Flare to land, squat to pee'.
Last edited by Fitter2; 2nd Mar 2014 at 08:32. Reason: Dyxlesic fingers.
These are scans of photos so not very good quality but show the results of barrier engagements by two Scimitars on Ark Royal. Both had nosewheel hang ups. The first, to 024 - XD325 - happened on 7 March 1966 during the Beira Patrol. It was operational non-diversion flying so it was a case of land or eject. The incident to 015 I think is the one that occurred to XD274 on 1 June 1966 shortly after Ark Royal left Aden on her way back to the UK. (Information from Ray Sturtivant/Lee Howard's book "Fleet Air Arm Fixed-Wing Aircraft since 1946")
And for DaveReidUK look at the many bods in the background of the all the photos - you couldn't have a better description of what I meant by Goofers.
Next one shows Ark Royal handing over the Beira Patrol to Eagle (foreground) on 15 March 1966.
....and here is one of the grand old lady (Ark Royal) in her prime in 1965/66 with an 803 Squadron Scimitar on short finals. Happy days!
And for DaveReidUK look at the many bods in the background of the all the photos - you couldn't have a better description of what I meant by Goofers.
Next one shows Ark Royal handing over the Beira Patrol to Eagle (foreground) on 15 March 1966.
....and here is one of the grand old lady (Ark Royal) in her prime in 1965/66 with an 803 Squadron Scimitar on short finals. Happy days!
Last edited by Democritus; 2nd Mar 2014 at 12:03. Reason: Additional information
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Back in the UK from the Sunshine Island for the last 8 years.
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The most difficult thing about night DL was lining up with the deck centreline; in the smaller carriers like Hermes and Centaur, designed for the Venom and Seahawk, there was not a huge lateral space for a 50ft wingspan Sea Vixen, especially when some centreline lights were out ( sometimes only 2 or 3 left ) and the aircraft had a yawdamper system which meant it liked to continue in a straight line when you wanted to turn it. Late on in my experience some really clever bod had the idea of dropping a donkey's plonk of lights over the stern from the deck centreline which reduced the lineup problem hugely, in that when lined up properly there was a straight line of lights, and if you went off centre the line showed an angle in it rather than a continuous straight line. Whoever it was should have been elevated to just below the guys who invented the angled deck and the landing mirror system.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chichester West Sussex UK
Age: 91
Posts: 2,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sailor
Agree your comments re donkey's plonk 100%.
They were an RAE invention (as was the angled deck and mirror of course) They existed when I joined at the end of '63. There were three units there Naval Air Dept (NAD), Blind landing experimental unit (BLEU) and Aerodynamics flight. They all collaborated where appropriate and NAD and BLEU especially so re lighting patterns. I think (very much not certain) that I once heard a boffin say the donkey's plonk originated with a BLEU guy. The BLEU guys were very much into lighting displays of how to help the pilot in the final stage of an approach.
Agree your comments re donkey's plonk 100%.
They were an RAE invention (as was the angled deck and mirror of course) They existed when I joined at the end of '63. There were three units there Naval Air Dept (NAD), Blind landing experimental unit (BLEU) and Aerodynamics flight. They all collaborated where appropriate and NAD and BLEU especially so re lighting patterns. I think (very much not certain) that I once heard a boffin say the donkey's plonk originated with a BLEU guy. The BLEU guys were very much into lighting displays of how to help the pilot in the final stage of an approach.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vitally important issue - the donkeys plonk also referred to a fuel drain underneath a Scimitar. A famous event occurred when an 800 Squadron pilot removed his on contact with the sea when dive bombing a splash target.
