Will a Viscount ever fly again?
an old aircraft displayed suitably loudly and aggressively at low level
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Thats a fair point Fareastdriver. Apart from John Travolta's superb Boeing 707 i'd be interested to know how many other mainstream vintage airliners have been restored to fly in the US in private ownership?
Rob
Rob
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Rob, To answer a part of your question above try a google search on the registration N836D, this should give you a good view on the years of restoration work that went on to get a DC-7B flying in the US, you may already know about this project ?
My point here is that although this project achieved its 'climax' and the aircraft did fly and people were allowed to 'join the club' and have a flight aboard whist it was at many US airshows.
I was lucky enough to be one of 50 passengers aboard its first, and only, overseas flight, a tour of the Carribean in May 2011, whilst on this epic trip talking with the operators they could not understand the lack of interest from the US enthusiasts, the majority of the 50 passengers were from Europe !, so a lack of local interest must be a factor built into any future projects of this type ?
The last I heard of N836D it was stuck at Charlotte N.Carolina with a major engine problem that will need a $100.000 replacement and a severe lack of interest from the locals ??
I stand to be corrected on these points ! But how many of us would be prepared to transfer a lot of money from our bank accounts to have a flight in a Viscount ?? .... But I would if the chance were there ?????
Keith
My point here is that although this project achieved its 'climax' and the aircraft did fly and people were allowed to 'join the club' and have a flight aboard whist it was at many US airshows.
I was lucky enough to be one of 50 passengers aboard its first, and only, overseas flight, a tour of the Carribean in May 2011, whilst on this epic trip talking with the operators they could not understand the lack of interest from the US enthusiasts, the majority of the 50 passengers were from Europe !, so a lack of local interest must be a factor built into any future projects of this type ?
The last I heard of N836D it was stuck at Charlotte N.Carolina with a major engine problem that will need a $100.000 replacement and a severe lack of interest from the locals ??
I stand to be corrected on these points ! But how many of us would be prepared to transfer a lot of money from our bank accounts to have a flight in a Viscount ?? .... But I would if the chance were there ?????
Keith
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Do you recon it is easier and cheaper to keep an old aircraft that is currently flying in flying condition, something like a vc-10 even though it is much bigger than a viscount?
Last edited by FlyerJoe; 26th Jan 2013 at 21:01.
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If there is plenty of engines and support from BAE available and a ton of cash for fuel it might be a goer for an ex military to fly but 4 engine jets of that era are "gas guzzlers " and to fly passengers in them would cost alot of money to get it certified and I can assure you there is no sentiment in aviation over old Airplanes of the era and you will be lucky to get your hands on a RAF VC10 as as they get to the end of their life its Away to Bruntingthorpe to be broken up for spares
The reason the Vanguard that I help to maintain at Brooklands was Grounded in 1996 was lack of spares and engines which neither BAC or Rolls Royce would support any longer so when the Cof A ran out on the 30th September 1996 It wasn't worth trying to renew it at least it didn't end up as Bake bean tins like the other Vanguards.
The reason the Vanguard that I help to maintain at Brooklands was Grounded in 1996 was lack of spares and engines which neither BAC or Rolls Royce would support any longer so when the Cof A ran out on the 30th September 1996 It wasn't worth trying to renew it at least it didn't end up as Bake bean tins like the other Vanguards.
Last edited by avionic type; 27th Jan 2013 at 10:47.
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Aden Airways again: they lost one Viscount of course when it was blown up on the ground during a 24 hour quarantine period. After the bombing of the DC3 (Nov 66) all aircraft had to be quarantined for 24 hours before flying as it was reckoned the terrorists' timers were limited to 24 hours. The system worked. They lost a Viscount.
I have to say some AA pilots did tend to show off - I was invited once to the cockpit for a flight to Jeddah (1964). On approach the Captain called for all eyes out to find the Jeddah radio mast (allegedly the only marker) whilst he gently yawed left and right to give a wider span of the horizon.
Yawing became obvious when one of the stewardesses was flying (not infrequent). You always knew (as a pax) if it was Chrissie Chambers - very attractive but quite small, so she couldn't really reach the pedals.
And of course when it came to desert storming in the C47/DC3s quite a few pax stories....
I have to say some AA pilots did tend to show off - I was invited once to the cockpit for a flight to Jeddah (1964). On approach the Captain called for all eyes out to find the Jeddah radio mast (allegedly the only marker) whilst he gently yawed left and right to give a wider span of the horizon.
Yawing became obvious when one of the stewardesses was flying (not infrequent). You always knew (as a pax) if it was Chrissie Chambers - very attractive but quite small, so she couldn't really reach the pedals.
And of course when it came to desert storming in the C47/DC3s quite a few pax stories....
The reason the Vanguard that I help to maintain at Brooklands was Grounded in 1996 was lack of spares and engines which neither BAC or Rolls Royce would support any longer so when the Cof A ran out on the 30th September 1996 It wasn't worth trying to renew it at least it didn't end up as Bake bean tins like the other Vanguards.
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Quote:
Rob, To answer a part of your question above try a google search on the registration N836D, this should give you a good view on the years of restoration work that went on to get a DC-7B flying in the US, you may already know about this project ?
N836D is now moldering away in a location that can't take care of it and doesn't care. On her last departure, with paying passengers onboard, she blew Number 3. I have been told there were already plans in the works to replace Number 4 for pending problems. She is now stuck in Charlotte, NC at the Carolinas Aviation Museum - outside, unprotected and uncared for.
I was told at the time of the engine failure, two of the three owning parties had voted to ground the airplane due to the high cost of operation. Insurance alone for a plane that carried 40 some passengers was an eyewatering figure to me. I believe I was told that it would cost about $100,000 per engine to get the two engines replaced.
As far as preservation of this beautiful plane, to my knowledge, NOTHING was done by the owners (or the museum) except have 700 gallons of 100LL fuel removed to prevent environmental contamination due to (to my eye) significant fuel leaks. The crew departed late the afternoon of the event and to my knowledge NO ONE representing the owners has ever returned to look in on the old girl. Nothing was done to protect/preserve Nos. 1 and 2. Nothing was done with the batteries. Nothing was done to cover holes to keep her from being a giant "birdhouse" (pun intended).
The DC-7 will NOT fit in the hangar at the C.A.M. (it's full of a smashed, waterlogged A-320). I know of no plans to even make her ferriable to get to somewhere that she could be cared for.
We all have desires to see "heratige" equipment of all types in operation. I believe it truly serves a purpose in education. BUT few are really willing to shoulder the incredible financial burdon of making this happen and most of those that talk about it don't know what they are talking about.
C2j
C2j
Rob, To answer a part of your question above try a google search on the registration N836D, this should give you a good view on the years of restoration work that went on to get a DC-7B flying in the US, you may already know about this project ?
N836D is now moldering away in a location that can't take care of it and doesn't care. On her last departure, with paying passengers onboard, she blew Number 3. I have been told there were already plans in the works to replace Number 4 for pending problems. She is now stuck in Charlotte, NC at the Carolinas Aviation Museum - outside, unprotected and uncared for.
I was told at the time of the engine failure, two of the three owning parties had voted to ground the airplane due to the high cost of operation. Insurance alone for a plane that carried 40 some passengers was an eyewatering figure to me. I believe I was told that it would cost about $100,000 per engine to get the two engines replaced.
As far as preservation of this beautiful plane, to my knowledge, NOTHING was done by the owners (or the museum) except have 700 gallons of 100LL fuel removed to prevent environmental contamination due to (to my eye) significant fuel leaks. The crew departed late the afternoon of the event and to my knowledge NO ONE representing the owners has ever returned to look in on the old girl. Nothing was done to protect/preserve Nos. 1 and 2. Nothing was done with the batteries. Nothing was done to cover holes to keep her from being a giant "birdhouse" (pun intended).
The DC-7 will NOT fit in the hangar at the C.A.M. (it's full of a smashed, waterlogged A-320). I know of no plans to even make her ferriable to get to somewhere that she could be cared for.
We all have desires to see "heratige" equipment of all types in operation. I believe it truly serves a purpose in education. BUT few are really willing to shoulder the incredible financial burdon of making this happen and most of those that talk about it don't know what they are talking about.
C2j
C2j
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Flyer joe we don't run the engines anymore for 3 reasons 1st the a/c has been with us for nearly 17 years and we cannot find out the internal state of the engines because the Tyne has no method whereby we can Boroscope it,and we decided it prudent not to run them again, 2nd the starter motor on 1 engine is U/S and we have no spares and 3 , the Bus museum is behind 1and 2engines and as it has plastc walls we think perhaps about 400 degrees C exhaust from the jet pipes might melt it
Pity it was fun to get the engines up to High Ground Idle and smell the old parrafin fumes again. I was normally on the ground engineers headset
Pity it was fun to get the engines up to High Ground Idle and smell the old parrafin fumes again. I was normally on the ground engineers headset
Compared to the fancy turbo-compounds on the DC-7s and Connies, the early turboprop engines should be much easier to look after -- and more reliable.
It might also help that turbine fuel remains available. When was the last time you saw 145 octane at the pumps?
It might also help that turbine fuel remains available. When was the last time you saw 145 octane at the pumps?
Quote:
There's still one (fictitious) Vanguard flying, albeit in Merchantman configuration:
The Damocles Plot
Is this available in print form?
There's still one (fictitious) Vanguard flying, albeit in Merchantman configuration:
The Damocles Plot
Is this available in print form?
Last edited by Discorde; 30th Jan 2013 at 10:02.
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RatherBeFlying ,the turboprop is only cheaper to run if there is any way to check the compessor blades for damage inside the engine and the Dart and engines of that era there was no way that could be done with the engine on the wing ,it was a workshop job as it had to be stripped down compleatly .modern Boroscope testing with fiber optic cameras through inspection ports did not come in till the 70s and that was pure jet engines [ I can only speak for BEA but we were pretty well up in the fore front of civil aviaton technics] but I'm more than willing to be shot down in flames
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avionic type, I was working and licensed (mainly engines) on the merchantman right up to the retirement of “EP”. Our scheduled boroscope inspections of the compressor section were carried out at the interstage casing on left hand side of the engine. This involved removing the triangular plate secured with qty 3 9/16 bolts, then with a rigid 90 degree scope could easily view the LP 5 and HP 1 stages turning the prop by hand had sufficient friction to rotate the HP as well. The condition of the compressor at this point was considered to give a representative picture of the state of the overall compressor. On the side of each nacelle is a quick access panel when opened you will see a small round panel with a lever opening this allows for a 4th stage turbine inspection using a torch and mirror.
Further to your starter motor problem, the Rolls Royce museum in Derby has Tyne 506 on display. We helped build it up for them and it did have a starter fitted then, possible they would do a swap with you.
Regards.
Further to your starter motor problem, the Rolls Royce museum in Derby has Tyne 506 on display. We helped build it up for them and it did have a starter fitted then, possible they would do a swap with you.
Regards.
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quinkytube, I will get the steps & open the cowlings ready for you to do the boro & if they are good avionic type & I wil run them for you!!!
tristar500
Sorry for thread drift. 500
tristar500
Sorry for thread drift. 500
Last edited by tristar 500; 31st Jan 2013 at 19:03.
AT, I just looked at a Dart cutaway. Yep, it looks pretty challenging to remove the housings from the centrifugal stages -- and likely even more fun to get them back on right
But all those bolts would keep the volunteers busy
My initial take is that the early centrifugal compressor engines had admirable reliability and were less fussy than the early axial jobs. The T-33s and Vampires were flying long after they went out of active service.
But all those bolts would keep the volunteers busy
My initial take is that the early centrifugal compressor engines had admirable reliability and were less fussy than the early axial jobs. The T-33s and Vampires were flying long after they went out of active service.