Any Borneo Whirlwind veterans here?
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Code Letters in the Far East
That's as maybe... but the Far East beasts had white code letters and the "hulk" shown on the trailer may have had it's original 103/110 white code letter scrubbed during the repair and been replaced by a later black Sqdn code letter when it re-entered service.
"Pass the salt, please, I want to fling some over my left shoulder...."
DB
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"Pass the salt, please, I want to fling some over my left shoulder...."
DB
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An updated photograph of the painting showing a larger tail rotor and amended sky around the tailboom. A gesture at wooden planking can be seen in the foreground limited to a boggy area as photographs suggest that a network of boardwalks was not always present. David; in order to use your photograph for scale, please pm with your height. I am getting itchy fingers to complete this one asap as a que is forming.
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Height no secret...
My Height ? To be old-fashioned and not politically correct: 5 feet 9 inches.
I also think if you look at the colour pics on Key you'll see a lot of PSP around the place which probably came from Kuching or Sibu when the runway was sealed... Getting it to The Gaat would have been a nightmare.
DeeBee
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I also think if you look at the colour pics on Key you'll see a lot of PSP around the place which probably came from Kuching or Sibu when the runway was sealed... Getting it to The Gaat would have been a nightmare.
DeeBee
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DeeBee,
My comment re Sqn code was in jest/tongue in cheek etc and of course the codes would have varied as the cab moved from unit to unit. I don't ever recall seeing an SH Whirlwind with black codes.
A monochrome photograph of XP405, taken in 1973 at Upwood and which now adorns my downstairs loo (I'm so posh, I have a loo upstairs and downstairs!!!!) shows the code in black, edged in white. A colour photo of XP338, hovering over the roadsign at Tern Hill, shows the letters 'W' and 'N' in black, a black serial number on the tail boom and a red/white and blue roundal which takes up almost all of the fillet behind the cabin and underneath the boom. Both 405 and 338 are Tern Hill aircraft and hence both were in the overall training colours of the period (1973 and 1964 respectively).
By the way, have I mentioned that a book called "The Borneo Boys" is to be published shortly and will probably be launched in December. It deals with Confrontation between Dec '62 and late '66 from the perspective of the Whirlwind and Belvedere squadrons, although RN and Army also get a mention. This book will, hopefully, correct the misconception in some other accounts, which tends to suggest that the whole show was very much Army beefed up by the RN!!
Old Duffer
My comment re Sqn code was in jest/tongue in cheek etc and of course the codes would have varied as the cab moved from unit to unit. I don't ever recall seeing an SH Whirlwind with black codes.
A monochrome photograph of XP405, taken in 1973 at Upwood and which now adorns my downstairs loo (I'm so posh, I have a loo upstairs and downstairs!!!!) shows the code in black, edged in white. A colour photo of XP338, hovering over the roadsign at Tern Hill, shows the letters 'W' and 'N' in black, a black serial number on the tail boom and a red/white and blue roundal which takes up almost all of the fillet behind the cabin and underneath the boom. Both 405 and 338 are Tern Hill aircraft and hence both were in the overall training colours of the period (1973 and 1964 respectively).
By the way, have I mentioned that a book called "The Borneo Boys" is to be published shortly and will probably be launched in December. It deals with Confrontation between Dec '62 and late '66 from the perspective of the Whirlwind and Belvedere squadrons, although RN and Army also get a mention. This book will, hopefully, correct the misconception in some other accounts, which tends to suggest that the whole show was very much Army beefed up by the RN!!
Old Duffer
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You can see this landing site (albeit in black & white) in a film:
HELICOPTER SQUAD HONOURED - British Pathé
The helicopters are Royal Navy Wessex but the location is the same. Also shows how the Gurkhas were dressed whilst on patrol.
Does anyone know the L&L for this site? It would be interesting to see it in Google Earth nowadays.
HELICOPTER SQUAD HONOURED - British Pathé
The helicopters are Royal Navy Wessex but the location is the same. Also shows how the Gurkhas were dressed whilst on patrol.
Does anyone know the L&L for this site? It would be interesting to see it in Google Earth nowadays.
Last edited by Yozzer; 7th Aug 2012 at 13:00.
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Gaat Lat/Long
Yozzer...
Gaat Lat/Long at the east side junction of the Rajang River and Sungei Gaat:
1 deg 53' 09.57" N, 113 deg 26' 49.86"
or, follow the Rajang River from Kapit for about 80 Kms and go just to the East of a big "V" bend in the river.
Looks like they have done a bit of logging there and The Gaat and the community upriver are into logging in a big way, sad to say.
They haven't done a digital run over there so it is still fuzzy.
DeeBee
www.electranewbritain.com
Gaat Lat/Long at the east side junction of the Rajang River and Sungei Gaat:
1 deg 53' 09.57" N, 113 deg 26' 49.86"
or, follow the Rajang River from Kapit for about 80 Kms and go just to the East of a big "V" bend in the river.
Looks like they have done a bit of logging there and The Gaat and the community upriver are into logging in a big way, sad to say.
They haven't done a digital run over there so it is still fuzzy.
DeeBee
www.electranewbritain.com
Last edited by David Billings; 7th Aug 2012 at 14:35. Reason: spelllin'
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Gaat Longitude....
Make the Longitude "East" of course....
It would be helpful if Mr. Google did do a High Def run but I suppose nothing much of interest for anybody that hasn't been there...
I can't even find Long Jawi so maybe they've gone somewhere else...
Make the Longitude "East" of course....
It would be helpful if Mr. Google did do a High Def run but I suppose nothing much of interest for anybody that hasn't been there...
I can't even find Long Jawi so maybe they've gone somewhere else...
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Re XP358 crash, does anyone have the full details of this? I have it receiving Cat.4 damage on 19.11.67 whilst with 110 Sqn ('K') but nothing further.
Can someone fill in the gaps (with names)?
MTIA
Lee
Can someone fill in the gaps (with names)?
MTIA
Lee
Nanga Gaat
In March 2011, a chum, his wife and a party led by an Australian went up the river and reached the Gaat.
The remains of the two RN Wessex, which crashed there in April 1965, are still visible with engines etc identifiable. The memorial is still there but much of the site is overgrown and there is a great deal of logging etc in the area. The journey was difficult because of the river levels being low.
I have been told recently that the expedition no longer runs that far up the river, so probably the only way in is on foot as the landing pads are no longer discernable. BTW, the hornets were much in evidence and do they sting!
Sorry Lee can't help with the details of 358 but Dave Billings knows all about it - I'd moved to Hong Kong by that time - thank goodness!
Old Duffer
The remains of the two RN Wessex, which crashed there in April 1965, are still visible with engines etc identifiable. The memorial is still there but much of the site is overgrown and there is a great deal of logging etc in the area. The journey was difficult because of the river levels being low.
I have been told recently that the expedition no longer runs that far up the river, so probably the only way in is on foot as the landing pads are no longer discernable. BTW, the hornets were much in evidence and do they sting!
Sorry Lee can't help with the details of 358 but Dave Billings knows all about it - I'd moved to Hong Kong by that time - thank goodness!
Old Duffer
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Two more questions if I may:
1) The aerial (HF?) running to the tail skid; did it then run up the other side. ie was it overall 'V' shaped or a single line?
2) Regarding the parked aircraft. Are there any static covers, blanks - flags etc that 'would' have been fitted? Likewise can I assume that tip sock fitment would have been weather (wind) dependent at the time and therefore no being seen it not a deal.
Artistic License only goes so far and it is frustrating at an Art Exhibition to have your pride and joy ripped to shreds on minor technical matters.
1) The aerial (HF?) running to the tail skid; did it then run up the other side. ie was it overall 'V' shaped or a single line?
2) Regarding the parked aircraft. Are there any static covers, blanks - flags etc that 'would' have been fitted? Likewise can I assume that tip sock fitment would have been weather (wind) dependent at the time and therefore no being seen it not a deal.
Artistic License only goes so far and it is frustrating at an Art Exhibition to have your pride and joy ripped to shreds on minor technical matters.
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I think the HF aerial was V-shaped, i.e. running either side. Tiger_mate, the pictures I will send you of the UNFICYP detachment (see your PM on the other thread) have this as well as the Nicosia control tower.
Sticking covers and blanking plates on etc depended on how long you were going to be hanging around. If the cab was parked for a lunch break, nobody gave a stuff - overnight was rather different. However, again there were certain criteria depending on weather etc.
Leave the cab on the ground alone, it might just be there for a short time.
In my experience, most people who want to nit pick are those who have never 'done the business'.
Old Duffer
Leave the cab on the ground alone, it might just be there for a short time.
In my experience, most people who want to nit pick are those who have never 'done the business'.
Old Duffer
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I think the reason for the cranked tailboom has little to do with aerodynamics but simply to keep the tailboom clear of the rotor blades on wind up and more particularly on shutdown. Even with the cranked tailboom, I've seen a blade get frighteningly close to the boom shutting down in a gusting wind, and every now and then, one of the droop stops wouldn't go in which made it worse.
Unfortunately the problem of Gnome engine "rundowns" is complex because of the interaction between the engine (compressor stalls) and the engine computor and its associated signalling circuits which made diagnosis not so easy. Having had one as late as the '90's (this was a compressor stall) in a privately operated ex RAF Whirlwind, the problem never really went away.
Unfortunately the problem of Gnome engine "rundowns" is complex because of the interaction between the engine (compressor stalls) and the engine computor and its associated signalling circuits which made diagnosis not so easy. Having had one as late as the '90's (this was a compressor stall) in a privately operated ex RAF Whirlwind, the problem never really went away.
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Lee Howard: The details of XP358 in Sabah...
If you want to know the details then contact me on:
[email protected]
David Billings
www.electranewbritain.com
[email protected]
David Billings
www.electranewbritain.com
Last edited by David Billings; 12th Aug 2012 at 10:30.
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I travelled to Odiham to get some reference photographs and I am afraid that a combination of ODH getting a new Chinook Gate Guard, RAF Policy of only single gate guards, and most importantly the ammount of obvious corrosion on the Whirlwind; I speculate that its future looks bleak.
Here is one of the many photographs taken. Can I assume that all Borneo Whirlwinds had the pair of (FM?) aerials below the nose? .....and is the prominent round filler cap with the sight glass adjacent to it the fuel filler as I am struggling to get my head around exactly which orrifice is for fuel (and likely staining)
There was a small triangular aerial attached to a bodge mount behind the starboard oleo. Looked like a DME or IFF and I wonder if this was also a universal fitment.
AL1. Having studied a similar photo of an SAR cab, I believe the fuel cap to be the semi circular flap with a butterfly type zeus fastener next to the intercom point and the circular flap for oil. Ie the cover labled Earthing Point.
Here is one of the many photographs taken. Can I assume that all Borneo Whirlwinds had the pair of (FM?) aerials below the nose? .....and is the prominent round filler cap with the sight glass adjacent to it the fuel filler as I am struggling to get my head around exactly which orrifice is for fuel (and likely staining)
There was a small triangular aerial attached to a bodge mount behind the starboard oleo. Looked like a DME or IFF and I wonder if this was also a universal fitment.
AL1. Having studied a similar photo of an SAR cab, I believe the fuel cap to be the semi circular flap with a butterfly type zeus fastener next to the intercom point and the circular flap for oil. Ie the cover labled Earthing Point.
Last edited by Tiger_mate; 16th Aug 2012 at 19:03.
T-M, which `cab` is it at Odi..?
The fuel filler is behind the `flap` with `Earthing point` on it;the upper one is for oil,with sight glass; the aerials under the nose are for UHF homer.No FM until later on SAR...naturally one could never talk to the Army,unless one had a chalkboard,and drew a picture...well one could if they carried a portable UHF set,but that required another Signaller...
The IFF only came later,and probably only UK SAR...there was also a half-football sized/shaped foam cover over the brake-pipe joint where it goes into the fuselage to protect from para static lines and ropes fouling.Nice wheel and tyre,pity they couldn`t spare a good spray of WD-40/PX38 over the rest of it..
The fuel filler is behind the `flap` with `Earthing point` on it;the upper one is for oil,with sight glass; the aerials under the nose are for UHF homer.No FM until later on SAR...naturally one could never talk to the Army,unless one had a chalkboard,and drew a picture...well one could if they carried a portable UHF set,but that required another Signaller...
The IFF only came later,and probably only UK SAR...there was also a half-football sized/shaped foam cover over the brake-pipe joint where it goes into the fuselage to protect from para static lines and ropes fouling.Nice wheel and tyre,pity they couldn`t spare a good spray of WD-40/PX38 over the rest of it..
XR453-`W` on 230,at Odi,67-8..only flew it 4 times in 8 mths,so it must have spent some time in the `shed`...!! I only have a SNCO`s garden now,so I could only assemble a Robbo..I did spend 1h45 with `F-E-D` in it doing I/F, and an hour at night with `Beggers` ,firing `Schermulys` ....