Any Borneo Whirlwind veterans here?
Try these for starters:
XJ412 - left on the top of Tinkers Hill Sabah in Nov 66 - no code
XJ432 - no code
XP329 - 'C'
XK986 - 'U'
By the way guys, the Borneo Boys book is launched at the RAF Museum on 12 December. It tells the story of helicopters in Borneo 1962-66, mainly RAF.
Old Duffer
XJ412 - left on the top of Tinkers Hill Sabah in Nov 66 - no code
XJ432 - no code
XP329 - 'C'
XK986 - 'U'
By the way guys, the Borneo Boys book is launched at the RAF Museum on 12 December. It tells the story of helicopters in Borneo 1962-66, mainly RAF.
Old Duffer
It may be that the size of Squadron aircraft `letters` was different between 225 and 230 and also their positions.XP329 and 332 were 225,later 103,however 329 was on 230 back in the UK in mid`67.
Awaiting info from someone who should know....
Awaiting info from someone who should know....
Just a bit further to my post 101 above.
It will be essential to ensure that the "provenance" of the serial number selected is established. For example the artist should ignore aircraft which only served at Tern Hill or which had been SAR aircraft solely. May I also suggest that we avoid XP327, lost in tragic circumstances by 225 Sqn, and XR477, likewise lost in Hong Kong but a Far East aircraft of some standing.
Referring to David's post above re the original Hong Kong aircraft, shipped to Kai Tak on HMS Triumph, I think the six were: XP301, XP332, XP340, XP363, XJ432 and XR477. XP301, broken up at Benson in the early 1970s, had been the SS11 trials aircraft and I have an A3 (approx) monochrome photo, framed on the wall of my hall, of her hovering at Odiham with four missiles on board. Can't remember what the weight of the wiring etc was but I don't remember it being taken out. Somewhere else there were some posts about Chunky Lord doing training on the missile in a hut at Kuching and also of live firing at some cave in the jungle. Perhaps it would be best not to mention the chap who returned with the missile's guidance wire strung all over his aircraft!!!
Old Duffer
It will be essential to ensure that the "provenance" of the serial number selected is established. For example the artist should ignore aircraft which only served at Tern Hill or which had been SAR aircraft solely. May I also suggest that we avoid XP327, lost in tragic circumstances by 225 Sqn, and XR477, likewise lost in Hong Kong but a Far East aircraft of some standing.
Referring to David's post above re the original Hong Kong aircraft, shipped to Kai Tak on HMS Triumph, I think the six were: XP301, XP332, XP340, XP363, XJ432 and XR477. XP301, broken up at Benson in the early 1970s, had been the SS11 trials aircraft and I have an A3 (approx) monochrome photo, framed on the wall of my hall, of her hovering at Odiham with four missiles on board. Can't remember what the weight of the wiring etc was but I don't remember it being taken out. Somewhere else there were some posts about Chunky Lord doing training on the missile in a hut at Kuching and also of live firing at some cave in the jungle. Perhaps it would be best not to mention the chap who returned with the missile's guidance wire strung all over his aircraft!!!
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We had one, maybe two Whirlwinds fitted for missile firing on 103 and used in the end to provide missile practice for Canberra navs. Unfortunately someone pressed the "clear aircraft" switch and dumped the lot in the sea at China Rock range.
All the fixed fittings were retained along with the HF, Night Sun, package winch, filter nose door etc. Must have been the heaviest Whirlwind ever except for the Queen's Flight jobs.
All the fixed fittings were retained along with the HF, Night Sun, package winch, filter nose door etc. Must have been the heaviest Whirlwind ever except for the Queen's Flight jobs.
Re my post 104 - see the new FLYPAST magazine, there's a double page spread of Whirlwinds at Kai Tak in 1968.
I think my memory is flawed - it should have been XR458 and I think XJ432 replaced XP332 after the latter was dunked.
Old Duffer
I think my memory is flawed - it should have been XR458 and I think XJ432 replaced XP332 after the latter was dunked.
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So XJ432 with no code seen is appropriate for the static Whirlwind? If so, that will be the aircraft depicted, and it will be marked as such shortly.
Gandwnich - check PM
Gandwnich - check PM
Tiger Mate,
I think so. The photograph I have seen of XJ432 has no visible code but these things are transitory and a code could have been added at any time.
One of the difficulties is that at its height, there were four Whirlwind squadrons operating in Borneo, of which two rotated aircraft and crews through Singapore and two were supported through both Singapore and UK and the crews were on twelve month tours.
Losses were blessedly few and rare but the maintenance cycle did involve aircraft being shifted around, as did the hours 'equalisation' requirements.
If the base selected is to be described as: Nanga Gaat, it is important to establish when the RAF was the dominant user of the base and then it helps identify which aircraft can plausibly be considered as operating from there. The issue is that IIRC, by the time the RAF was 'in charge' all the aircraft had the sand filter fitted!! Perhaps a bit of 'artist's licence' is in order here!!
Quite honestly, however, I don't think you'll find too much nitt picking from most of us.
Old Duffer
I think so. The photograph I have seen of XJ432 has no visible code but these things are transitory and a code could have been added at any time.
One of the difficulties is that at its height, there were four Whirlwind squadrons operating in Borneo, of which two rotated aircraft and crews through Singapore and two were supported through both Singapore and UK and the crews were on twelve month tours.
Losses were blessedly few and rare but the maintenance cycle did involve aircraft being shifted around, as did the hours 'equalisation' requirements.
If the base selected is to be described as: Nanga Gaat, it is important to establish when the RAF was the dominant user of the base and then it helps identify which aircraft can plausibly be considered as operating from there. The issue is that IIRC, by the time the RAF was 'in charge' all the aircraft had the sand filter fitted!! Perhaps a bit of 'artist's licence' is in order here!!
Quite honestly, however, I don't think you'll find too much nitt picking from most of us.
Old Duffer
IIRC 230 Sqn got its sand filters in March/April 1966. As we were the last in line for everything because Seletar used to nick all out spares whilst on route i would assume that everybody down south had them by then.
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How many had the SS11 fit then....
I walked away from one in Sabah, which I have been told was repaired because it was an SS11 modded beast and for the outlay, too valuable to scrap. I am in SIN at the moment and do not have my Logbook with me...why would I have it here ?!?!? I think it was XP328 and when I walked away from it in 1968, it had no boom, only blade stubs, both front legs broken and it looked a bit 'bad and suckled', so to speak. I considered it to be "scrap"..... and for the life of me could see no reason to cart it off the side of the hill
Laurie B on the K-y P------g thread informed me that it was hooked out, repaired and ended it's days at Sluggersgoh. The repair must have taken five years....
RPM, FF, TGT...
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Laurie B on the K-y P------g thread informed me that it was hooked out, repaired and ended it's days at Sluggersgoh. The repair must have taken five years....
RPM, FF, TGT...
www.electranewbritain.com
Last edited by David Billings; 30th Jul 2012 at 13:18.
XP328 ended being transferred to the civil register and then preserved at Tattershal Thorpe near Coningsby but whether 'tis still there is anyone's guess.
The aircraft sent to Gutersloh for ground display/GG duties was originally XP347 but it lost a tailrotor in Belgium and was destroyed when it rolled over, injuring the nav and two others. This was 5 May 81. Interestingly, it appeared that the wrong stuff might have been used as a lubricant - what a surprise!
Whether another Whirlwind was sent there I don't know but I and a load of mates were at Gutersloh on 10 May this year and I didn't see anything that looked like a Whirlwind.
As an aside, 230 came out of Gutersloh to go to Borneo but they returned to UK and Odiham and thence Wittering IIRC.
Old Duffer
The aircraft sent to Gutersloh for ground display/GG duties was originally XP347 but it lost a tailrotor in Belgium and was destroyed when it rolled over, injuring the nav and two others. This was 5 May 81. Interestingly, it appeared that the wrong stuff might have been used as a lubricant - what a surprise!
Whether another Whirlwind was sent there I don't know but I and a load of mates were at Gutersloh on 10 May this year and I didn't see anything that looked like a Whirlwind.
As an aside, 230 came out of Gutersloh to go to Borneo but they returned to UK and Odiham and thence Wittering IIRC.
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There was a Whirlwind hulk ohne tailboom at Gut for BDR Trg until the rotary boys moved out and the army moved in. I know where I can find the serial...back later.
AL1. XP358 / S
AL1. XP358 / S
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Kinda looks like it was XP358 then!
For those interested, Corgi are reworking their diecast model of an SAR Whirlwind to be a 230 Sqn SH version - no sand filter however!!
Corporal P
For those interested, Corgi are reworking their diecast model of an SAR Whirlwind to be a 230 Sqn SH version - no sand filter however!!
Corporal P
230 Sqn SH version - no sand filter however!!
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Quote:
I walked away from one in Sabah, which I have been told was repaired because it was an SS11 modded beast and for the outlay, too valuable to scrap. I am in SIN at the moment and do not have my Logbook with me...why would I have it here ?!?!? I think it was XP328 and when I walked away from it in 1968, it had no boom, only blade stubs, both front legs broken and it looked a bit 'bad and suckled', so to speak. I considered it to be "scrap"..... and for the life of me could see no reason to cart it off the side of the hill.
Laurie B on the K-y P------g thread informed me that it was hooked out, repaired and ended it's days at Sluggersgoh.
Dave B, from our correspondence on the Key board (I have the same username here), I can confirm that the serial was as TM gave above (post 113), XP358.
After its 103/110 days, that frame was allocated to 28 Sqn in HK very early 70s and then back to RAE before the BDR days at Gut.
I also have a photo of XP328/R taken when it was flying just off the beach near Butterworth around Jun/Jul 66. If it is of interest, I can post here.
I walked away from one in Sabah, which I have been told was repaired because it was an SS11 modded beast and for the outlay, too valuable to scrap. I am in SIN at the moment and do not have my Logbook with me...why would I have it here ?!?!? I think it was XP328 and when I walked away from it in 1968, it had no boom, only blade stubs, both front legs broken and it looked a bit 'bad and suckled', so to speak. I considered it to be "scrap"..... and for the life of me could see no reason to cart it off the side of the hill.
Laurie B on the K-y P------g thread informed me that it was hooked out, repaired and ended it's days at Sluggersgoh.
Dave B, from our correspondence on the Key board (I have the same username here), I can confirm that the serial was as TM gave above (post 113), XP358.
After its 103/110 days, that frame was allocated to 28 Sqn in HK very early 70s and then back to RAE before the BDR days at Gut.
I also have a photo of XP328/R taken when it was flying just off the beach near Butterworth around Jun/Jul 66. If it is of interest, I can post here.
Last edited by lauriebe; 2nd Aug 2012 at 03:55.
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XP358....(sigh !)
lauriebe,
Thanks for the pertinent hull serial no. I am usually in possession of a good memory.... So XP358 it is....maybe it is the circumstance of the 'why' that beast came to rest on the hillside in Sabah that caused the unlinking of a numerical memory cell. My nomenclature remembrance cells in that regard are still perfecto... after 44 years.
"Lest We Forget", as they say. Amen to that.
Dave Billings
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Thanks for the pertinent hull serial no. I am usually in possession of a good memory.... So XP358 it is....maybe it is the circumstance of the 'why' that beast came to rest on the hillside in Sabah that caused the unlinking of a numerical memory cell. My nomenclature remembrance cells in that regard are still perfecto... after 44 years.
"Lest We Forget", as they say. Amen to that.
Dave Billings
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XP358 in its final days at Gutersloh. The airframe is mounted on a trailer in order that it could deploy on field based operations and satisfy the BDR requirements of TacEval assessors. Not pretty, but still serving in an important role to the end.
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My Goodness....
...looks a lot worse than when I left it in 1968...
I must admit that when I did leave it, I never looked back at it...a pillar of salt came to mind !!! Ha ! I am even fearful of that now !
DB
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I must admit that when I did leave it, I never looked back at it...a pillar of salt came to mind !!! Ha ! I am even fearful of that now !
DB
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