The Queen's Flight to Kenya
Thread Starter
The Queen's Flight to Kenya
Just seen some newsreel footage of the then Princess Elizabeth departing for Africa 60 years ago. She returned as Queen.
Part of the footage showed her aircraft, a DC7 I think, of BOAC taking off from a very utilitarian Heathrow. I was surprised at the low and long climbout and the speed the undercarriage was raised.
Have I got the right aircraft?
Was this a standard procedure for this type?
Part of the footage showed her aircraft, a DC7 I think, of BOAC taking off from a very utilitarian Heathrow. I was surprised at the low and long climbout and the speed the undercarriage was raised.
Have I got the right aircraft?
Was this a standard procedure for this type?
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60 Years ago.....
.....The aircraft she returned in was an Argonaut, so I imagine the aircraft she left in was this same type as operated by BOAC 60 years ago. BOAC didn't operate the DC7 until it came along somewhat later.
The Canadian built Argonaut appeared externally much like the DC4, but was powered by a late version of the Merlin engine, and most importantly had a pressurised cabin. I flew the type for a short while, and it had one or two features of DC6 era technology.
I don't know about the Queen's bit, but the pilots had nice big green leather seats, and large windows to look out of. Vertically and horizontally, it took a while to get anywhere, but it had a drift sight in the floor, if as with self, you weren't too hot with a sextant and heading into places like Africa. It rattled a bit, but not much worse than sitting in the row that's in-line with the fans on a 777. ( burnt a bit more oil though )
I'm not left with the impression that the wheels usually took a long time to come up. It's always possible that the Captain forgot to command the gear to be raised for a minute or two. Then as now it's usually the most senior management plus other senior backups in charge on kudos delivering occasions, and they tend not to leave the office as often as is ideal. To be fair though, gassed up and with a high payload on a really hot day, they might have delayed initiating the action if the extra drag caused by opening the gear doors was thought to be significant.
The Canadian built Argonaut appeared externally much like the DC4, but was powered by a late version of the Merlin engine, and most importantly had a pressurised cabin. I flew the type for a short while, and it had one or two features of DC6 era technology.
I don't know about the Queen's bit, but the pilots had nice big green leather seats, and large windows to look out of. Vertically and horizontally, it took a while to get anywhere, but it had a drift sight in the floor, if as with self, you weren't too hot with a sextant and heading into places like Africa. It rattled a bit, but not much worse than sitting in the row that's in-line with the fans on a 777. ( burnt a bit more oil though )
I'm not left with the impression that the wheels usually took a long time to come up. It's always possible that the Captain forgot to command the gear to be raised for a minute or two. Then as now it's usually the most senior management plus other senior backups in charge on kudos delivering occasions, and they tend not to leave the office as often as is ideal. To be fair though, gassed up and with a high payload on a really hot day, they might have delayed initiating the action if the extra drag caused by opening the gear doors was thought to be significant.
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As One Green says, it was a Canadian built (Canadair DC4M North Star) BOAC Argonaut, in this case "Atalanta". I don't know what film clip you saw, but this one in the BBC archive mentions the type more than once and the "wheels-up" seems pretty snappy to me, certainly not noticebly delayed!
BBC - Archive - Princess Elizabeth - News | King and Queen See Royal Departure
The return is detailed in the "Flight Archive" here:
1952 | 0425 | Flight Archive
Details on the Argonaut:
Canadair North Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hope this helps.
TC
BBC - Archive - Princess Elizabeth - News | King and Queen See Royal Departure
The return is detailed in the "Flight Archive" here:
1952 | 0425 | Flight Archive
Details on the Argonaut:
Canadair North Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hope this helps.
TC
Thread Starter
Thank you both. SincoTC I believe we are talking about the same clip.
I was not particularly clear in phrasing the two parts of the question;
1 Was the long low climbout normal?
2 The gear appeared to retract very quickly unlike my impression of other ac of the era, was this specific to type?
You have answered my questions; thank you
I was not particularly clear in phrasing the two parts of the question;
1 Was the long low climbout normal?
2 The gear appeared to retract very quickly unlike my impression of other ac of the era, was this specific to type?
You have answered my questions; thank you
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G-ALHK 'Atalanta'
Two people who post to this site have flown on that actual Argonaut, albeit on separate occasions: DUNS-SCOTUS and myself.
My flight on 'HK was on the 29th/30th June 1956, LHR (North Side) - Tripoli - Kano - Accra. The takeoff was indeed unlike those of today, with bags of noise from those four Merlins, a fairly sedate acceleration, and an almost imperceptible impression of becoming airborne. Yes, the houses were definitely getting smaller, and we were off on the seven hour sector to Tripoli!
The fact that a sister Argonaut - G-ALHE - had crashed on takeoff from Kano five days earlier, with loss of life, was kept from me, an eleven year old unaccompanied minor, flying out to my parents in Accra from boarding school. I could hear the sound of those Merlins, and feel the motion of the aircraft, for two or three days afterwards.
There was a plaque to commemorate Atalanta's historic part in bringing the new Queen home, and this is where DUNS' memory differs from mine. He recollects that it was in the main entrance area - which doubled as the galley - and mine is that it was mounted on the bulkhead in the semi-circular cocktail lounge at the rear of the aircraft.
My flight on 'HK was on the 29th/30th June 1956, LHR (North Side) - Tripoli - Kano - Accra. The takeoff was indeed unlike those of today, with bags of noise from those four Merlins, a fairly sedate acceleration, and an almost imperceptible impression of becoming airborne. Yes, the houses were definitely getting smaller, and we were off on the seven hour sector to Tripoli!
The fact that a sister Argonaut - G-ALHE - had crashed on takeoff from Kano five days earlier, with loss of life, was kept from me, an eleven year old unaccompanied minor, flying out to my parents in Accra from boarding school. I could hear the sound of those Merlins, and feel the motion of the aircraft, for two or three days afterwards.
There was a plaque to commemorate Atalanta's historic part in bringing the new Queen home, and this is where DUNS' memory differs from mine. He recollects that it was in the main entrance area - which doubled as the galley - and mine is that it was mounted on the bulkhead in the semi-circular cocktail lounge at the rear of the aircraft.
Interesting to see the news reel clip. Looking back on it now I was rather shocked to see how ill George VI appeared to be.
The death of the King in these circumstances lead to Queen Elizabeth II becoming the first British reigning monarch to fly on a British Airline (obviously not a scheduled service). However before boarding the Argonaut at Entebbe she had been flown by East African Airways from Nanyuki to Entebbe in DC3 VP-KHK RMA Sagana thus EAA became the first airline to carry a British reigning monarch.
I cannot claim to have flown on G-ALHK Atlanta but enjoyed (endured ?!!) two flights on Argonauts in summer 1958: likely to be LHN Argosy and LHS Astra. LHR - NBI return for school holidays in Kenya. The return trip in LHS turned into something of an adventure.
We had left Nairobi in the afternoon, called at Entebbe and were within about an hour of Khartoum when "engine problems" were encountered. It was decided to return to Entebbe as facilitites there were better. By about midnight all the passengers (mainly youngsters returning to school) were installed in the Lake Victoria Hotel.
Repairs took all next day so we departed Entebbe for the second time 24 hours later: in fact the next days flight, also BA161, left before we did. Interesting when all the passengers became intermingled and no one knew which BA161 they were supposed to be boarding!!!
As has been said the effect of the engine noise persisted for a couple days after the flight had been completed. Have to say I think the noise of the Wright turbo compounds on an Air France Starliner was even more penetrating.
Still wonderful flights to look back on.............
Planemike
The death of the King in these circumstances lead to Queen Elizabeth II becoming the first British reigning monarch to fly on a British Airline (obviously not a scheduled service). However before boarding the Argonaut at Entebbe she had been flown by East African Airways from Nanyuki to Entebbe in DC3 VP-KHK RMA Sagana thus EAA became the first airline to carry a British reigning monarch.
I cannot claim to have flown on G-ALHK Atlanta but enjoyed (endured ?!!) two flights on Argonauts in summer 1958: likely to be LHN Argosy and LHS Astra. LHR - NBI return for school holidays in Kenya. The return trip in LHS turned into something of an adventure.
We had left Nairobi in the afternoon, called at Entebbe and were within about an hour of Khartoum when "engine problems" were encountered. It was decided to return to Entebbe as facilitites there were better. By about midnight all the passengers (mainly youngsters returning to school) were installed in the Lake Victoria Hotel.
Repairs took all next day so we departed Entebbe for the second time 24 hours later: in fact the next days flight, also BA161, left before we did. Interesting when all the passengers became intermingled and no one knew which BA161 they were supposed to be boarding!!!
As has been said the effect of the engine noise persisted for a couple days after the flight had been completed. Have to say I think the noise of the Wright turbo compounds on an Air France Starliner was even more penetrating.
Still wonderful flights to look back on.............
Planemike
Last edited by Planemike; 5th Feb 2012 at 18:40.
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Questions about Queen's first flight
Hi all,
I'm writing a biography of Colin Francombe, whose father, Aubrey Francombe, was the pilot on Queen Elizabeth II's first flight, from Nanyuki - Entebbe.
I really appreciate the detail you have already provided about the DC4 that took the Queen from Entebbe back to the UK. Just checking the name of the plane - is it 'Atalanta' as written in SincoTC's post? Just want to make sure I have all my facts correct.
Many thanks to you all,
David Houghton
I'm writing a biography of Colin Francombe, whose father, Aubrey Francombe, was the pilot on Queen Elizabeth II's first flight, from Nanyuki - Entebbe.
I really appreciate the detail you have already provided about the DC4 that took the Queen from Entebbe back to the UK. Just checking the name of the plane - is it 'Atalanta' as written in SincoTC's post? Just want to make sure I have all my facts correct.
Many thanks to you all,
David Houghton
Just checking the name of the plane - is it 'Atalanta' as written in SincoTC's post? Just want to make sure I have all my facts correct.
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The plane is listed as a DC-4M-2 North Star on the Canadair North Star Wikipedia page. But I suspect you guys have more expertise than most Wikipedia editors! Here's a quote from the page:
"BOAC ordered 22 DC-4M-4s and named them the "Argonaut class", each aircraft having a classical name beginning with "A". The Argonauts were delivered between March and November 1949; they flew to South America, Africa, the Middle East and the Far East until 1960.
On 1 February 1952 the BOAC Argonaut Atalanta G-ALHK transported Princess Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh to Kenya to begin a Commonwealth tour. Some days later, 6 February, it was again Atalanta G-ALHK which returned the newly acceded Queen Elizabeth II to England upon the death of her father, King George VI."
Would you say that's accurate?
Thanks,
David
"BOAC ordered 22 DC-4M-4s and named them the "Argonaut class", each aircraft having a classical name beginning with "A". The Argonauts were delivered between March and November 1949; they flew to South America, Africa, the Middle East and the Far East until 1960.
On 1 February 1952 the BOAC Argonaut Atalanta G-ALHK transported Princess Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh to Kenya to begin a Commonwealth tour. Some days later, 6 February, it was again Atalanta G-ALHK which returned the newly acceded Queen Elizabeth II to England upon the death of her father, King George VI."
Would you say that's accurate?
Thanks,
David
Vaguely on topic re. the Argonaut, sometime in early October '55 I flew in an Argonaut on the first BOAC 'trooping' flight to Khormaksar. We routed Heathrow - Rome- Cairo - K'sar. I don't have the exact date or registration but would it be possible to ferret out the details, this far removed? There were only a few of these charters as, presumably courtesy of the 'bean-counters', the contract changed to Britavia et al.
OGaH's mention of the green leather seats stikes a chord ... SLFs were similarly catered for.
Homeward-bound, two and a bit years later, via British United Hermes, was distinctly down-market!
OGaH's mention of the green leather seats stikes a chord ... SLFs were similarly catered for.
Homeward-bound, two and a bit years later, via British United Hermes, was distinctly down-market!
G-INFO lists Argonaut G-ALHK as being a CANADAIR DC-4M2, so seems DoB at #9is correct, other official paperwork merely identifies the aircraft as a Canadair C. 4. It seems the "M" in the DC-4M designation stood for "Merlin".
The Canadair North Star by Larry Milberry defines DC-4M varients as going to Trans-Canada Airlines and the C-4 being the Argonauts of BOAC - flights to /fro Lagos in the mid 50s left me with loose teeth for a few days and the desire to fly as a career, still have most teeth and wonderful memories of 43 years aviating.
In this day an age of amply powered jets we tend to forget how small were the power reserves of the piston airliners.
The last time I saw a DC6 take off (from Southend) everyone commented on the long, shallow climb that seemed to take forever to even 1500ft.
The last time I saw a DC6 take off (from Southend) everyone commented on the long, shallow climb that seemed to take forever to even 1500ft.
The C-4 was Canadair's design number (the TC also quotes a C-4-1 variant, though I can't see any significant differences between the two, and of course there was also a single C-5).
Confusingly, the DC-4M has a separate TC (two, in fact). The DC-4M was certificated at 73,000 lb MTOW and the DC4M2 (sic) at 80,200 lb.
Trans Canada's aircraft were DC-4M-2 and BOAC's Argonauts, commonly referred to as C-4, were DC-4M-4. The RCAF's unpressurised versions were variously described, confusingly, as DC-4M-1 or C-54GM.
Last edited by DaveReidUK; 3rd Mar 2020 at 18:50. Reason: typo
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I flew as 17 year old pax in one of the RCAF Northstar DC4's with Merlin engines to Canada and back in 1957.
I was one of the Air Training Corps Cadets who were fortunate enough to be given a Reciprocal Visit.
Uncomfortable canvas seats down the side. Noisy, smelly and unpresurised.
AndI I wouldn't have missed a second of it!
I was one of the Air Training Corps Cadets who were fortunate enough to be given a Reciprocal Visit.
Uncomfortable canvas seats down the side. Noisy, smelly and unpresurised.
AndI I wouldn't have missed a second of it!
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Wasn’t there a BOAC Argonaut at Heathrow up until the early 1980’s G-ALHJ perhaps? Not sure what happened to her? Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recollect that a couple of BOAC Argonauts may have ended up at Redhill aerodrome in Surrey?