Accident at Old Warden today.Seafire mishap.
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Accident at Old Warden today.Seafire mishap.
I have heard that there has been an accident at Old Warden with a Vintage aircraft. Pilot escaped with minor injuries. No further info.
I have also heard that Anna Walker has made a wheels up landing in France in the Seafire. She is OK.Aeroplane will need some work,I guess.
I have also heard that Anna Walker has made a wheels up landing in France in the Seafire. She is OK.Aeroplane will need some work,I guess.
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Old Warden was the Jungmann, apparently upside down in a nearby field, pilot is OK.
Just to clarify, I think it was a problem with the Seafire's gear. Damage doesn't look too bad; presumably flaps, rad housings, carb intake and the prop and spinner - let's hope shedding the wooden blades on grass spared the engine from any damage...
Just to clarify, I think it was a problem with the Seafire's gear. Damage doesn't look too bad; presumably flaps, rad housings, carb intake and the prop and spinner - let's hope shedding the wooden blades on grass spared the engine from any damage...
Damn bad luck ! Yes, its '336 from Old Warden. Was looking forward to seeing it at the evening air display next month. One of the highlights of my visit to the uk. It will be out of action for a couple of seasons at least. The damage does look extensive. Have they at least got their MkV flying which has been in the workshops for the last couple of years ? Maybe no chance of hearing a merlin at shuttleworth this year.
This is '336 from my 2009 visit to shuttleworth:
And before someone corrects me, yes I know its a Griffon ...No chance of hearing either a Griffon or a Merlin I should have said !
This is '336 from my 2009 visit to shuttleworth:
And before someone corrects me, yes I know its a Griffon ...No chance of hearing either a Griffon or a Merlin I should have said !
let's hope shedding the wooden blades on grass spared the engine from any damage...
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I was at Old Warden today, heard all the sirens and thought it was a road accident. Didn't find out what it really was until I was about to leave.
Took a look at the MkV, it.s still in bits, wings and engine are off but very interesting to see.
Took a look at the MkV, it.s still in bits, wings and engine are off but very interesting to see.
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There appears to be a spot of confusion here.
The Seafire is NOT based at Old Warden, its based at North Weald with Kennet Aviation and has sadly had a wheels up landing in France.
The Shuttleworth Collection's Bucker Jungmann made a forced landing in a field of Oilseed Rape today to the west of Old Warden. The pilot is fine and the aircraft has been recovered but is badly damaged.
Two incidents but really all that matters is that both pilots are ok.
The Seafire is NOT based at Old Warden, its based at North Weald with Kennet Aviation and has sadly had a wheels up landing in France.
The Shuttleworth Collection's Bucker Jungmann made a forced landing in a field of Oilseed Rape today to the west of Old Warden. The pilot is fine and the aircraft has been recovered but is badly damaged.
Two incidents but really all that matters is that both pilots are ok.
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Very sad to see and thankfully nobody was injured. Just a thought but would it have been practical in a Seafire to shut down the engine before touch down to avoid any internal damage to the engine?
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I've seen a couple of videos of P-51s with gear problems being landed wheels up, both had the engine running. I imagine it's far safer to have power available to go around if necessary than suddenly find yourself trying to stretch a glide...
On the other hand I seem to recall that when Paul Day had to land Maurice Bayliss's Spitfire Tr.IX wheels up at Coventry a few years ago, he stopped the engine before touch down. But then again he must have hundreds of hours logged on Spitfires.
On the other hand I seem to recall that when Paul Day had to land Maurice Bayliss's Spitfire Tr.IX wheels up at Coventry a few years ago, he stopped the engine before touch down. But then again he must have hundreds of hours logged on Spitfires.
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Agree with Treadi. If the runway is long, then no problem, no need for a go round. In the end, it is all down to how Anna felt. Can mend the aeroplane easily, but can't replace the pilot. She has tons of knowledge about these things, and if she felt it was better to have the engine running, then..... that's fine!. Treadi. Believe the P.38 arrives Duxford Wednesday.
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Aye, looking forward to seeing that gem, JEM! Wonder if the P-40F has arrived on UK soil yet?
Edit: the P-40F has arrived at Duxford!
Edit: the P-40F has arrived at Duxford!
Last edited by treadigraph; 4th Jul 2011 at 14:37.
There appears to be a spot of confusion here. The Seafire is NOT based at Old Warden
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Forumites on "the other" site reporting that Anna confessed to having simply forgotten to lower the gear..........
I make no comment as to the veracity of the above!
Glad both pilots are OK.
I make no comment as to the veracity of the above!
Glad both pilots are OK.
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Just looked at the photo sequence at the link up this thread, assuming they're in order the 5th photo shows the tail wheel protector almost touching the grass, then photos 6 and 7 show it somewhat further above the grass and the aircraft at a much steeper pitch attitude.
So, the question is, would an u/c malfunction cause all 3 wheels to stay retracted as shown, I thought that perhaps the tail wheel would extend even if the mains did not. And, if this was due to forgetting to lower the u/c, would the pilot not sense that the wheels had not contacted the grass and see an unnaturally different view from the cockpit before anything hit the ground, leaving time to then pour on the coals to climb away? I suppose there is always the risk of stalling at a higher altitude and having a far worse crash in this case, so a decision would again be needed to choose between embarrassment or worse.
Puzzling....
So, the question is, would an u/c malfunction cause all 3 wheels to stay retracted as shown, I thought that perhaps the tail wheel would extend even if the mains did not. And, if this was due to forgetting to lower the u/c, would the pilot not sense that the wheels had not contacted the grass and see an unnaturally different view from the cockpit before anything hit the ground, leaving time to then pour on the coals to climb away? I suppose there is always the risk of stalling at a higher altitude and having a far worse crash in this case, so a decision would again be needed to choose between embarrassment or worse.
Puzzling....
Last edited by Feathers McGraw; 6th Jul 2011 at 17:02. Reason: Correct phraseology to adjust the meaning
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It's a common missunderstanding that a wheels up landing on grass would be less harmful to an engine than on a paved runway. That's not really true! On soft ground the turning prop blades will dig into the ground while the airplane is still moving forward, creating an inevitably heavy bending force on the crankshaft. That's where the real problems start! But on a paved runway the shredding or bending of prop blades is "quick and painless", usually with little or more likely no damage to the crankshaft. The engine still have to be taken apart, but it's more likely that there is not to much or even no internal damage. The only real advantage of grass would be in case of a fuel leak.
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It's a no-brainer.. If ANY prop strike takes place, especially in a geared engine such as a RR Griffon, an inspection, and strip if necessary is mandatory! Grass or hard, wooden blades or not, especially those that have broken at the root, the strongest part of the blade!
I suspect there was a significant amount of power going through the engine and gearbox. Just imagine stopping the weight of that prop assembly and what happens when that sudden stop is transmitted back down through the gearbox and the crankshaft..... A recent, fairly minor prop strike on a similar warbird resulted in a replacement crankcase..
Those who have suggested on other forums that the damage is minimal, and "why can't they just put a new prop on it, lower the gear and fly it home", should see how much it's going to cost to repair it!
Aeroplanes can be fixed at a cost, but pilots can't.
I suspect there was a significant amount of power going through the engine and gearbox. Just imagine stopping the weight of that prop assembly and what happens when that sudden stop is transmitted back down through the gearbox and the crankshaft..... A recent, fairly minor prop strike on a similar warbird resulted in a replacement crankcase..
Those who have suggested on other forums that the damage is minimal, and "why can't they just put a new prop on it, lower the gear and fly it home", should see how much it's going to cost to repair it!
Aeroplanes can be fixed at a cost, but pilots can't.
