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Trident at Booker.

Old 17th Oct 2020, 07:03
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VC10

https://www.vc10.net/Memories/WhiteWaltham.html
Captain AJ Smith...Alan Harkness was the first officer...we instructed together at Booker...
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 07:27
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Using the Scramble Database of show reports I have deduced it was July 1969.
I agree. I was at the show and I remember the following, all of which are on the list - the Trident, the "Linton Gin" JP4s, which took off and landed on the grass, the AAC "Blue Eagles" Sioux team and the most ridiculously slow flyby I've ever seen - the LF-1 Zaunkönig:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brauns...LF-1_Zaunkönig

The list doesn't mention the VC-10 but I definitely remember it. The earlier picture of a VC-10 is not White Waltham - there are too many trees in the background. However, I don't remember the VC-10 at Booker doing any aggressive maneuvers - just a spectacularly noisy go-around.
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 07:53
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Originally Posted by India Four Two View Post
I agree. I was at the show and I remember the following, all of which are on the list - the Trident, the "Linton Gin" JP4s, which took off and landed on the grass
I don't wish to be a party pooper, but there seems to be some confusion about which display we're talking about.

If it's the VC-10 photo, then it's clearly(!) a Jet Provost T.5 in the first frame on the strip:



The Scramble report makes no mention of a JP T.5 at the Booker display, nor of the Spitfire captured in a couple of frames (if indeed the photos were taken there at all - have we actually established that?).
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 09:49
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Morning Dave,

Hmm, you are on to something there, I think yesterday when I looked at the list on Scramble against the photos I forgo to split the album up into potentially two separate years. Unfortunately, my dad's index card in the Negative folder has three Booker events, with the first two listed as 1868. The final Booker list of negatives was left without a year. But this is where he has registered the VC-10. Because I scanned the negatives from the three separate "Booker" into one folder on my computer I was checking the aircraft digitally and used that to cross reference Booker 69. Hope this makes sense as to why I lead to 1969, but you are right, I need to reexamine what was taken when.
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 13:29
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Could it have been Bob Knights flying it?
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 20:46
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Originally Posted by TheAirMission View Post
Unfortunately, my dad's index card in the Negative folder has three Booker events, with the first two listed as 1868.
I presume that the participants were mainly balloons.
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Old 18th Oct 2020, 14:12
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Originally Posted by fauteuil volant View Post
I presume that the participants were mainly balloons.
Ah, very good, obviously 1968
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Old 12th Oct 2022, 11:59
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Originally Posted by ABUKABOY View Post
I too was standing along the crowd line circa 1968, and could not believe my eyes as the 707 made its low approach over Booker, and neatly oiled my mother's washing-line along with everybody else's under the approach path. It was REALLY low and quite magnificent! Having been gliding there since 1959, to see this happening at MY little airfield left quite an impression I can tell you! My participation at this Show was flying a Thruxton Jackaroo, (my first and only flight on type), doing knife-edges along the crowd line. As a current Tiger Moth pilot, my only pre-flight briefing was that "it climbs, cruises and crashes at 86 knots, (or was that 68?)". Yes, quite!
The displays were always spectacular and well-supported by the participants, and certainly nothing like it could be contemplated today.
Rather like the tacit approval of John *********, a local CAA Flt Ops inspector present on the field, to thrash the living daylights out of the place one quiet Sunday morning, (23/9/79), as I departed in an Intra DC-3 that I'd parked-up for the weekend to see my parents, quite the highlight of my flying career, and professionally filmed by Charles Lagus. I never did see the film, but would dearly love to, if anyone knows of his whereabouts.
Booker seems to be facing a very uncertain future at the moment with the threat of a massive football stadium and business park, with aviation well and truly sidelined, (or read between the lines........curtailed..........stopped altogether?). Booker residents, be very very careful what you wish for, there will be no repenting at leisure!
I'd love to see that bit of film too. The Dak was G-AMHJ.
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Old 12th Oct 2022, 17:03
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See my post #3. The VC 10 at Booker was either 71 or 72 as this was the time I was working at LHR and the photo reflects my memory of the flypast.
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Old 23rd Oct 2022, 18:39
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Probably , the last Trident flyby at Booker ? .......Was Sun 4th Nov. '84 . G-AWZZ LHR 1518 - BHX 1610 .
Lovely day wx wise , had been on ZZ earlier , normal S/Shuttle EDI return . Next sortie was retirement to BHX fire service. I bid for the flt and got a shareoplane skipper mate to bid the Capts seat , and another mate off standby as second F/O.
Had gee'd it up with the LHR tower for a min noise route leave LHR zone north at 2400 ' and ok'd from mate in Booker tower for a left base to 25 , flyby , and G/A to north .
Skip rang up Trident fleet manager , and got the reply ...'' Not below 500' and don't do anything silly '' !
Skip ... '' You've sorted it , your t/o my ldg '' ..
V little fuel , light , thus good excuse to light the boost , max thrust t/o with a V2 clb . No sooner a/b than pushing forward and pulling power off to level at 2400' . North from Burnham 170 kts droop and some flap , when a PA 28 passed by above us , ..... you could see his scramble for the map and dive towards the ground thinking he was in LHR zone .Talking to Booker drifted down 25 at 500'R. , trickle of power , 11000 to gently G/A turning . Talking with Luton who were warning an Aztec about our turning and passing his left wing . Lesson learned ..radius of turn at 170 greater than a C150 at 80 ..
Swopped seats with F/O mate , run by his village in Bucks . Finished with run up 33 at BHX.. full power pull up , cct to land with full reverse in the flare.. From P3 seat I was looking up at fireman standing on Landrover roof taking shots .
Pax home in B.Mid Super Shed .. Liberated stop watch still works .

PS , some months later .. Stewardess friend at a party ..
'' Do Tridents fly out of Booker ? Was taking a post Sunday lunch walk with new boyfriend in woods to west of Booker , when peace and friendship was disturbed by almighty racket of 3 Speys low overhead '' .
Me ... '' So Sorry , we did not see you and only had 11000 rpm on '' !
She married her man , and we still see them regularly now , nearly 38 yrs later .

rgds condor .
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Old 23rd Oct 2022, 19:22
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im pretty sure I have the video of one of the booker airshows with VC 10 etc....... must dig it out. such a fun era to have lived through !
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Old 1st Dec 2022, 12:21
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I was the other co-pilot on that scrapping flight of ZZ to B'ham, as condor 7 will well remember. The circle around my house on the Chilterns escarpment after the low pass at Booker was met by my wife standing in the garden with her fingers in her ears! I remember we also passed over Silverstone on the way. There was some race meeting in progress so we gave them a blast as well.

The captain very (very) kindly let me do it's last landing on 33 after his very low 240kt (droop down I think) flypast down the runway. I was briefed to shout out if the rad alt went below 50 ft. The view out of the window towards the end of the runway was full of chimneys sticking up!! The captain flew the pull up and circuit and handed over to me on the final approach. Full reverse in the flare and we easily turned off down 24 with all tyres intact. A grand day out for sure.

Tried to post a photograph taken by said fireman of us on short finals but it seems I have to post 8 times before being allowed EH?

u118075 (better known as Jim)




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Old 1st Dec 2022, 19:14
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Would a Trident ever to have done a low runway pass at North Weald. I remember going to an airshow there, we had an Uncle who lived not far away . I distinctly remmber the Trident , about 1965 doing this, but unsure where, I am sure it was not Booker as I never went there until much older. It was in Red Square livery and as you might expect looked pretty cool (much more so than a 320 or 73 would). Any confirmation or contrary suggestions? (seeing a Trident was hardlya big deal as I lived in Stanwell village virtually on LHR but of course it looked very different close to the ground, gear up and going pretty fast. I always thought the Trident the best looking of that era, the VC10 was majestic but the Trident looked like the hotrod it sort of was being fast and a bit sporty as per its reputation gleaned from here decades later
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Old 1st Dec 2022, 20:48
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Tridents were always faster than most other airliners; the only one which was close was the VC10.
When I was handling flight planning at London ATCC West Drayton, they often filed for a climb TAS of 400 kt and a cruise of 500 where all your Boeings etc would file for 460 cruise. I'm afraid I don't remember what mach number they filed but it was somewhere up around 0.9 with others filing about 0.86.
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 01:24
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It always puzzles me when I see the Trident referred to as the "ground gripper".
I only went spotting on the Queen's Building a few times when I could persuade my dad to take me - it was 50 miles away - but a Trident take-off was obvious and only needed a glance to identify the aircraft.
Compared to all other airliners, and admittedly at a distance of well over 50 years, a Trident always appeared to take-off at a 45° climb angle.
I'm sure those who actually know will rightly tell me it wasn't 45° but it certainly seemed twice as steep as any other aircraft.
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 07:01
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Trident higher MMO, VC10 higher VMO, both faster than DC 9 51 even with clacker CB pulled.
Trident highest ROD with 10,500 reverse, brakes and 365 knots but not as high as F100..chickened out with 16,700 fpm and still p!ssed off CC due deck angle…FO not that happy either.
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 09:19
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Originally Posted by DHfan View Post
I'm sure those who actually know will rightly tell me it wasn't 45° but it certainly seemed twice as steep as any other aircraft.
Probably related to the increased curvature of the Earth at Heathrow.
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 10:21
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Originally Posted by DHfan View Post
It always puzzles me when I see the Trident referred to as the "ground gripper".
I only went spotting on the Queen's Building a few times when I could persuade my dad to take me - it was 50 miles away - but a Trident take-off was obvious and only needed a glance to identify the aircraft.
Compared to all other airliners, and admittedly at a distance of well over 50 years, a Trident always appeared to take-off at a 45° climb angle.
I'm sure those who actually know will rightly tell me it wasn't 45° but it certainly seemed twice as steep as any other aircraft.
Watching departures in the period 1970/71 from near where Compass Centre now stands (I was stationed at the old north side radar unit and the staff canteen was a good lookout point) Tridents, VC10s and 737s used to be airborne from 28R/27R just before they passed us whereas heavier types such as 707/DC8 and later '747 were the ground grippers often disappearing towards Colnbrook firmly glued to the ground.
On moving across to the ops centre at West Drayton a year later, you could see the Tridents and 737s climbing away steeply and if anything, the 737s had a better ROC.
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 11:49
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The occasions I'm talking about in the mid sixties, the 737 probably hadn't even flown and certainly wasn't in service.
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 12:59
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Originally Posted by DHfan View Post
The occasions I'm talking about in the mid sixties, the 737 probably hadn't even flown and certainly wasn't in service.
I remember seeing 737s inbound to 08 at Luton in 1967; they used to turn in overhead Halton whilst we were gliding there. They were certainly in service with Britannia befoere 1968.
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