The "Whistling wheelbarrow"
Yes, for CinC NEAF, probably XP444 as mentioned much earlier in this thread.
I was returning from domcol leave in Southern Rhodesia and I was put on JJ's Argosy at Salisbury. The plan was for me to catch an Ascot from Aden back to the UK.
I think that JJ was flying it because the port mainwheels took a shortcut across the grass whilst we were taxing out. At Nairobi I was offloaded, to be replaced by topsoil, according to the rumours. Then I had to wait at Eastleigh for four days until they could get me on a British Commonwealth Britannia back to the UK.
Excuse an "outsider".....
.....one of the pilots on my Shack course in late '64 had been on the Argosy squadron in Aden and in fact was the captain of the one that "fell in the water". He was, however, not in either of the seats. He was checking the other two guys and, much against his will, he was "instructed" not to occupy either seat because the idea was he was checking them operating as a "crew".
I think he was a tad bitter, as he felt that he had been hung out to dry by the system that, he felt, had put him in an invidious position. It was the first time (but by no means the last) that I saw the effects of "responsibility without authority".
He also talked about one of the copilots who became a bit of a "meat importer" on the runs bringing the sand for OC Africa's golf course to Nairobi and topsoil for OC NEAF's garden. This meat trading developed to the point the co concerned left the RAF and concentrated on the business. Several years later as we maritime pukes passed through Nairobi en route the big island to the east with Mr H as my captain we visited the ex-co in the penthouse office in a tower block now doing very well for himself.
Funny old world, innit?
The Ancient Mariner
I think he was a tad bitter, as he felt that he had been hung out to dry by the system that, he felt, had put him in an invidious position. It was the first time (but by no means the last) that I saw the effects of "responsibility without authority".
He also talked about one of the copilots who became a bit of a "meat importer" on the runs bringing the sand for OC Africa's golf course to Nairobi and topsoil for OC NEAF's garden. This meat trading developed to the point the co concerned left the RAF and concentrated on the business. Several years later as we maritime pukes passed through Nairobi en route the big island to the east with Mr H as my captain we visited the ex-co in the penthouse office in a tower block now doing very well for himself.
Funny old world, innit?
The Ancient Mariner
Steak from Nairobi market, prawns from Bahrain and crayfish tails from Masirah! Makes my mouth water thinking about it. ISTR fillet steak was one East African Shilling a pound in 1965.
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Meat from Nairobi
"Kenya Cold" was the Company that did the packs of meat (and fruit and veg) based in downtown Nairobi (off Arthur Ellis Avenue if memory serves ?) they knew all the schedules and would deliver to both Eastleigh and Embakasi, they also supplied cartons of fresh milk for the home runs to K/sar, remember C in C - JEJ had a standing order with them, his took priority and it was he who had the earth shipped back to K/Sar, when the trucks turned up at Embakasi on the first run (XP439) with the soil the natives started loading without any protective covering on the floor by the shovelful, until the Loadie "Eddie W", stopped proceedings and sent them away until the soil was bagged, still awful messy, I only did one soil run !, that was plenty.
Changing subject who was the Yank exchange pilot who landed at Matsapa with the brakes on ?????? it had happened at Benson with a Yank exchange pilot early on in 62 as well.
PH.
Changing subject who was the Yank exchange pilot who landed at Matsapa with the brakes on ?????? it had happened at Benson with a Yank exchange pilot early on in 62 as well.
PH.
I think I used to order my Kenya Cold in the market. I did one trip with JEJ when he took over the LHS for the last hour and practised his low flying until the outskirts of Nairobi. Eastleigh was on parade for their AOC's inspection. The Station Commander was standing to attention by the rear door when JEJ exited through the front crew door, walked along the side of the aircraft and surprised the Stn Cdr with a "Gotcha"!
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I have a friend who was with 3 Para when this incident happened
el Afraq Armstrong Whitworth Argosy C-1 (XR133) Crashed 7th May 1968
El Adem + Tobruk Reminisce - Argosy XR133 Crash
apologies if this has been done before
el Afraq Armstrong Whitworth Argosy C-1 (XR133) Crashed 7th May 1968
El Adem + Tobruk Reminisce - Argosy XR133 Crash
apologies if this has been done before
Zetec: If the Matsapa incident was from November 1966 (see my post #109), then the pilot was not USAF.
And I see mention now of the crash at El Afraq, a sad business all round. The crew was from 267 Sqn, where I was at the time. I recall a briefing a day or two later for pilots only, with the rest of us excluded, and then being detailed for the Honour Guard at the Service funeral of copilot Oz Greenop, with whom I'd done Argosy conversion and then time on 105 Sqn in Aden and Bahrain.
And I see mention now of the crash at El Afraq, a sad business all round. The crew was from 267 Sqn, where I was at the time. I recall a briefing a day or two later for pilots only, with the rest of us excluded, and then being detailed for the Honour Guard at the Service funeral of copilot Oz Greenop, with whom I'd done Argosy conversion and then time on 105 Sqn in Aden and Bahrain.
Going back to Kenya Cold; the man in the market in Nairobi who did all the organising went by the name of Ibrahim Piranditta (or something similar). He would turn up outside the aircraft with God knows how many orders stitched up in Kenya Cold raffia bags and he seldom got it wrong.
Having fresh fillet steak in Aden with all the trimmings such as mushrooms was always a joy but it did not come without risk.
One of our (single) captains was not a fat person to start with but he started losing weight. He was eating for four but still losing weight when the medics finally got round to persuading a three foot tape worm to go into reverse.
Enjoy your dinner.
Having fresh fillet steak in Aden with all the trimmings such as mushrooms was always a joy but it did not come without risk.
One of our (single) captains was not a fat person to start with but he started losing weight. He was eating for four but still losing weight when the medics finally got round to persuading a three foot tape worm to go into reverse.
Enjoy your dinner.
I only managed 10 years of flying the Argosy for Mrs Windsor (from 1962 until 1971) so I still have a great deal still to learn.
I have no intention of commenting upon the ditching of XP413, the disaster at Got Al Afrag with XR133 or the shifting of garden soil from Nairobi to Aden for JEJ's garden for all three subjects have been done to death on pprune.
However, I am intrigued by Zetec's accusation of "a Yank captain" ripping up the runway at Matsapa.
Let us start with the runway at Matsapa; it looked beautiful from the ground and from the air but the fact was that it consisted of about 1/8" of tarmac sprayed upon murram (or something similar). Frank, who ran the Tower and was also the CFI of the Aero Club used to beg us to go easy on the brakes otherwise the surface would peel-up into a lot of black bananas. Most of the time this worked well but I have to say that, given the option of going off the end and crashing into the valley or saving Frank's beautiful (but rather inadequate surface) I would not for one second have considered keeping the local peace.
Which takes me on to Zetec's rather unfortunate "Yank captain" statement; during my ten years on the Argosy I served on 105, 114 and 267 (twice). I have never heard of exchange aircrew serving on 105 in Aden. On 267 Squadron (until the Viet Nam war started) we usually had an exchange crew from the RAAF consisting of a a captain, a co-pilot and a navigator. (The first thing we used to do was separate them)!
114 Squadron usually had a USAF exchange captain but I doubt they went to Matsapa very often (if ever at all).
Now, 47 (Beverley) Squadron at Abingdon also used to have a USAF exchange captain (I remember meeting Bonzo von H.). I also remember a Beverley arriving at Matsapa and undershooting. He landed several feet below runway level and hit the escarpment. Astonishingly, the Beverley undercarriage stayed in one piece, bounced off the cliff face and ended up on Frank's precious runway. I would imagine that some damage was caused!
So, could it be that Zetec's memory has mixed up a Beverley event with an Argosy event?
I have no intention of commenting upon the ditching of XP413, the disaster at Got Al Afrag with XR133 or the shifting of garden soil from Nairobi to Aden for JEJ's garden for all three subjects have been done to death on pprune.
However, I am intrigued by Zetec's accusation of "a Yank captain" ripping up the runway at Matsapa.
Let us start with the runway at Matsapa; it looked beautiful from the ground and from the air but the fact was that it consisted of about 1/8" of tarmac sprayed upon murram (or something similar). Frank, who ran the Tower and was also the CFI of the Aero Club used to beg us to go easy on the brakes otherwise the surface would peel-up into a lot of black bananas. Most of the time this worked well but I have to say that, given the option of going off the end and crashing into the valley or saving Frank's beautiful (but rather inadequate surface) I would not for one second have considered keeping the local peace.
Which takes me on to Zetec's rather unfortunate "Yank captain" statement; during my ten years on the Argosy I served on 105, 114 and 267 (twice). I have never heard of exchange aircrew serving on 105 in Aden. On 267 Squadron (until the Viet Nam war started) we usually had an exchange crew from the RAAF consisting of a a captain, a co-pilot and a navigator. (The first thing we used to do was separate them)!
114 Squadron usually had a USAF exchange captain but I doubt they went to Matsapa very often (if ever at all).
Now, 47 (Beverley) Squadron at Abingdon also used to have a USAF exchange captain (I remember meeting Bonzo von H.). I also remember a Beverley arriving at Matsapa and undershooting. He landed several feet below runway level and hit the escarpment. Astonishingly, the Beverley undercarriage stayed in one piece, bounced off the cliff face and ended up on Frank's precious runway. I would imagine that some damage was caused!
So, could it be that Zetec's memory has mixed up a Beverley event with an Argosy event?
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Yanks ?
Back from quick break away and can now answer, maybe read "Yank" as Canadian, ? first instance at Benson just before Easter break 62 (Wednesday ?), shortly before the U/C collapse of another (XP412 or 409 ?) on the Thursday, had been humping and lifting GE for the wheel change so was allowed away early for Easter, the u/c collapse/main leg fold up happened on the Thursday afternoon (day before Good Friday 62) believe it was a round robin aircraft taking troops around the country also had some local schoolchildren from Ewelme on board also, I drove back (I lived in Oxford) over the weekend and it was still sat looking rather sad somewhat lopsided but it was back in the shed when I returned on the Tuesday, that's the first one.
Matsapa, again was early 64, one of my last trips before coming home (just prior to the 413 incident) had done the Salisbury run, on the way back up the country on the bus run, again substitute Yank as Canadian or Colonial cousin ?, seem to remember a crew member named "Morrie" think Bill A*****ll was there as well (went onto the Reds) who did the signalling etc getting wheels and tyres from Nairobi, again being a fitter humping wheels not my job Chief but did an awful lot of jacking to assist, so definately not a Beverly I only did Argosies on 105.
Argosy : Went to Benson end of Jan 62, did Bitteswell and Ansty for the Dart,
went out as far as Khormaksar and Bahrein with 847 and 849 on a couple of "proving " flights and placing GE for forthcoming 105 placement, only major problem we had was at K/Sar when we had to get Station workshops to fabricate a reoiling rig for the APU as we didn't carry a Risbridger, otherwise a pleasant ? round trip which until the restrictions placed on the aircraft (pressurisation ? altitude limits) was really quite pleasant, left Benson "X" annotated with a "Q" as well I think beginning of March 62, that's when the fun started !!!!!.
Paul H, zetec2.
Matsapa, again was early 64, one of my last trips before coming home (just prior to the 413 incident) had done the Salisbury run, on the way back up the country on the bus run, again substitute Yank as Canadian or Colonial cousin ?, seem to remember a crew member named "Morrie" think Bill A*****ll was there as well (went onto the Reds) who did the signalling etc getting wheels and tyres from Nairobi, again being a fitter humping wheels not my job Chief but did an awful lot of jacking to assist, so definately not a Beverly I only did Argosies on 105.
Argosy : Went to Benson end of Jan 62, did Bitteswell and Ansty for the Dart,
went out as far as Khormaksar and Bahrein with 847 and 849 on a couple of "proving " flights and placing GE for forthcoming 105 placement, only major problem we had was at K/Sar when we had to get Station workshops to fabricate a reoiling rig for the APU as we didn't carry a Risbridger, otherwise a pleasant ? round trip which until the restrictions placed on the aircraft (pressurisation ? altitude limits) was really quite pleasant, left Benson "X" annotated with a "Q" as well I think beginning of March 62, that's when the fun started !!!!!.
Paul H, zetec2.
Ah so! Not American but Canadian? Well, we certainly had several of them about the place. I don't recall any RCAF/CAF exchange aircrew on the Argosy. The ones I remember were all Canadians serving in the RAF.
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Yanks ?
Well here we go after a couple of glasses of Vino Collapso and regaling wife with war stories of episodes past I remembered the name "Yank" Caldwell as the exchange gentleman who accompained us on our South African jollies, ring any bells with you Brakedwell (guess your name not from Argosy days as we only had "discing" - ground fine as I remember), just this afternoon dug out my "fuel trimmer and AWA yoke centrepiece" to try and make my brain work, ah nostalgia, not what it used to be.
Paul H.
Paul H.
I've found the Beverley incident at Matsapa; 29.06.63 Heavy Landing in the undershoot. Bounced off the escarpment and landed on the nosewheels first. 9G was recorded! After about a week on the ground it was decided to ferry the aircraft back to Eastleigh (it was a 30 Squadron aircraft). The aircraft was flown back via Salisbury. On arrival back at base, a gigantic crack was found in the tailplane spar! The tail could have come off at any moment.
That Beverley crew were a lot luckier than a good friend of mine who was the captain on the Dan-Air 707 crash at Lusaka.
1977 Dan-Air Boeing 707 crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1977 Dan-Air Boeing 707 crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I remember that one too. I flew with his younger brother a few times when he joined us as an F/O on the DC-10 with Fredair. Sadly, it was just before we went bust. I don't know where he went after that.
Re. the 'steak runs', we used to do similar with the Valettas, mid 50s.Two incidents - Phil H couldn't get his tail up on first take-off attempt, so aborted and checked loading. 400 lbs plus assorted meats stowed in the chain locker!!! More balanced arrangement for second (successful) attempt.
Later trip with similar, large, consignment had engine problems en-route and had to divert into Hargeisha. 3 day stopover, no cold storage, VERY 'pongy' cargo off-loaded and many out-of-pocket results.
Later trip with similar, large, consignment had engine problems en-route and had to divert into Hargeisha. 3 day stopover, no cold storage, VERY 'pongy' cargo off-loaded and many out-of-pocket results.
