The "Whistling wheelbarrow"
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On the Bay, Vic, Oz
Age: 80
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brakedwell wrote:
'Scuse me for butting in, having had no contact with argies, of the whistling w or t varieties, but I did find the above comment incredibly funny. Tell me what would you have done if the cigarette packet had fallen the other way? 
Surreptitiously, I lifted my cigarette packet, which was lying on my cup holder, and dropped it to confirm we were the right way up!
"....we left Bahrain passing over Doha in the climb to flight level 200..." Would that had been possible! A small typo, perhaps? I can't even recall getting to FL 200 with a load anywhere over Europe and, indeed, I've always felt that it was the need to use the Argosy as a baby Britannia in the Middle East (and I dare say, the Far East) that wrecked its reputation.
'Scuse me for butting in, having had no contact with argies, of the whistling w or t varieties, but I did find the above comment incredibly funny. Tell me what would you have done if the cigarette packet had fallen the other way?
I was referring to when XP444 was the personal a/c of JEJ C in C MEAF . I saw inside once when it was u/s at Luqa and you would not know it was an aircraft ! Bit like TQF
I went to Rhodesia in 1965 on DomCol leave. This was two months leave given to personnel who had signed on to the RAF overseas. On completion of this I was put on Johny Johnson's Argosy with the plan to fly from Salisbury to Khormaksa and then be flown back to the UK.
We cut the corner a bit fine on the taxi out so a main undercarriage leg had an expedition across the grass. When we arrived at Nairobi I was offloaded and had to spend three days at Eastleigh until a BCal Brittania took me home.
Somebody told me I was offloaded to make way for a load of topsoil.
We cut the corner a bit fine on the taxi out so a main undercarriage leg had an expedition across the grass. When we arrived at Nairobi I was offloaded and had to spend three days at Eastleigh until a BCal Brittania took me home.
Somebody told me I was offloaded to make way for a load of topsoil.
Well, I have just done a trawl through my logbooks for my time on 105 Sqn (1966 - 1968) and I can see no sign of XP444.
The Argosy website gives XP444 as:
28.11.62 Delivered to 267 Sqn at Benson.
01.07.63 To 215 Sqn in Changi.
15.01.68 To 70 Sqn in Akrotiri (NEAF) as a VIP aircraft.
03.11.75 Flown into Halton and scrapped in 1988.
For the record, the 105 Sqn Argosys during my time were:
XN819, XN820, XN849, XN852
XP408, XP409, XP410, XP411, XP412
XP437, XP438, XP439, XP440
XR109
I have a vague memory of XP437 carrying JEJ's pennant at one point but that is all it is - a vague memory.
I also remember the topsoil and manure as being carried by Beverley.
The Argosy website gives XP444 as:
28.11.62 Delivered to 267 Sqn at Benson.
01.07.63 To 215 Sqn in Changi.
15.01.68 To 70 Sqn in Akrotiri (NEAF) as a VIP aircraft.
03.11.75 Flown into Halton and scrapped in 1988.
For the record, the 105 Sqn Argosys during my time were:
XN819, XN820, XN849, XN852
XP408, XP409, XP410, XP411, XP412
XP437, XP438, XP439, XP440
XR109
I have a vague memory of XP437 carrying JEJ's pennant at one point but that is all it is - a vague memory.
I also remember the topsoil and manure as being carried by Beverley.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Just over the road from Bicester airfield
Age: 80
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
Topsoil, Kenya Cold & other things
Topsoil, plants & other objects for JJ's garden were being hauled by Argosy from Nairobi back to K'Sar in 1963 & onwards(shortly after his arrival) , as well as a large standing order with Kenya Cold, he always had a car & driver waiting for our return to drive it down to Steamer Point to the residence.
105 was often used as his taxi service & as other posts we had in the role equipment hangar a special VIP fit which could be loaded in about 30 minutes from the call, often took longer to de-role & prep the aircraft though, oh happy days !.
No takers for my Argosy video then ?. regards Paul H.
105 was often used as his taxi service & as other posts we had in the role equipment hangar a special VIP fit which could be loaded in about 30 minutes from the call, often took longer to de-role & prep the aircraft though, oh happy days !.
No takers for my Argosy video then ?. regards Paul H.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can remember them as ILS checkers back around the mid 70's when I was at Coningsby. They used to drop a guy off with a complicated looking thing and they used to do runs while he calibrated things that needed calibrating. Was it 115 Sqdn? I think that was their last role in the RAF.
I remember being told a great story about JEJ going to Masirah for a week's fishing. Every day he hi-jacked the launch and set about doing some serious fishing and making a general nuisance of himself about the place.
The station master was a lowly Flt Lt and a bit powerless to do much about the situation. At the very least he felt that the great man should contribute towards the cost of using the launch but he knew that the bill would simply be buried beneath the sand and the rocks of Steamer Point.
So, he sent the bill direct to Ministry of Defence for onward transmission and settlement by JEJ.
What a clever chap he was!
The station master was a lowly Flt Lt and a bit powerless to do much about the situation. At the very least he felt that the great man should contribute towards the cost of using the launch but he knew that the bill would simply be buried beneath the sand and the rocks of Steamer Point.
So, he sent the bill direct to Ministry of Defence for onward transmission and settlement by JEJ.
What a clever chap he was!
JW411
I think you will find the bill was for the cost of the Beverley that flew his boat to Masirah. I wonder what happened to the David Shepherd paintings belonging to the Officers Mess in Khormaksar which he took away to be cleaned.
I think you will find the bill was for the cost of the Beverley that flew his boat to Masirah. I wonder what happened to the David Shepherd paintings belonging to the Officers Mess in Khormaksar which he took away to be cleaned.
So the bill was for the cost of flying his boat to Masirah in a Beverley? That's even better!
By the way, you may remember that the 114 Sqn aircraft had the snake's head in a circle painted on the fin above the serial number. 267 Sqn aircraft had the "Peggy".
Do you have any photographs of 105 Sqn aircraft with the Battleaxe so mounted? I have one small photograph of XP408 with the axe in a circle on the fin but it is the only one that I can find and I have to use Photoshop to see the badge properly.
I had lunch with Eddie Rigg on Wednesday and the subject of the David Shepherd paintings came up over a beer. I seem to remember that we had an extraordinary mess meeting to insist upon their return. I can't remember where they finally ended up.
By the way, you may remember that the 114 Sqn aircraft had the snake's head in a circle painted on the fin above the serial number. 267 Sqn aircraft had the "Peggy".
Do you have any photographs of 105 Sqn aircraft with the Battleaxe so mounted? I have one small photograph of XP408 with the axe in a circle on the fin but it is the only one that I can find and I have to use Photoshop to see the badge properly.
I had lunch with Eddie Rigg on Wednesday and the subject of the David Shepherd paintings came up over a beer. I seem to remember that we had an extraordinary mess meeting to insist upon their return. I can't remember where they finally ended up.
It would be interesting to know how much it did cost him. When I collected a Twin Pioneer from the MU in Aden the flying time to Masirah was 8.50. It must have taken a Beverley about seven hours. Times that by two 
JW411: I have a picture of the 105 badge on 439 - not perfect but possibly better than the one you mention. I'll do a scan tomorrow and email it to you. And I don't seem to recall there being any Shepherd paintings in the Mess in that final year at K'sar - possibly too much time spent outside in the Jungle Bar?
And I don't seem to recall there being any Shepherd paintings in the Mess in that final year at K'sar - possibly too much time spent outside in the Jungle Bar?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a Shepherd in the RAF Club of a Twin Pin taking off with a rhino approaching. I seem to remember this being in the Sqn Cdr's office at 21 Sqn, Khormaksar at the withdrawal. Perhaps that was a safer location for it!
Well, none of us are getting any younger but I had it in my mind that one of the David Shephard paintings was the famous one of the 84 Sqn Beverley landing at Dhala with all the sand coming up as it went into reverse.
I keep thinking of Eastleigh, Nairobi for the other one. Was it of Venoms?
No doubt all of these treasures and their disposal were very well documented in properly authorised records and their current location should easily be given under the Freedom of Information Act.
I wish you luck.
I have tried for years, unsuccessfully, to find the 267 Squadron scrapbook that I made when I was the squadron historian and I would simply love to know where the 53 Squadron mess silver is?
To obfuscate:
To darken, obscure, stupefy or bewilder.
I keep thinking of Eastleigh, Nairobi for the other one. Was it of Venoms?
No doubt all of these treasures and their disposal were very well documented in properly authorised records and their current location should easily be given under the Freedom of Information Act.
I wish you luck.
I have tried for years, unsuccessfully, to find the 267 Squadron scrapbook that I made when I was the squadron historian and I would simply love to know where the 53 Squadron mess silver is?
To obfuscate:
To darken, obscure, stupefy or bewilder.
ICM:
I've just checked my emails. Many thanks for the photograph of the Battleaxe on the tail of XP439. (I now know that I have not quite lost my marbles).
I had, however, completely forgotten that the enclosing circle had an indent at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions enclosing the number "105".
I've just checked my emails. Many thanks for the photograph of the Battleaxe on the tail of XP439. (I now know that I have not quite lost my marbles).
I had, however, completely forgotten that the enclosing circle had an indent at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions enclosing the number "105".
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Beverley painting reminds me of a Beverley landing at Beihan, somewhere aroud 1962. We were there by accident, having just finished loosing off 25pdr shells into the Yemen from a nearby beauty spot.
The trip was to celebrate the completion of an airstrip lovingly constructed by a small crew from the 5004th Airfield Construction Squadron RAF, at least I think that's what it was called. For about 2 years an elderly Flt Lt had master-ninded the job, which involved hacking out large pieces of rock, crushing them, spreading the material, rolling it, sealing it with tarmac etc.
A Beaver appeared and landed, with all sorts of brass from Aden. Then a Beverley hove majestically into view, circled once and carried out a stately approach and perfect touchdown. As it rolled out, waves developed in a V-pattern in the tarmac along the length of the nice new strip, leaving a pleasing corrugated appearance.
The C-in-C turned to the Flt Lt and remarked that his future for another 2 years was certain. They then climbed back into the Beaver, which departed from a convenient smooth piece of ground.
That evening, the Flt Lt went doo-lally, and threatened us all with a .303 rifle, which was fully loaded, when the generator broke down during a film he liked. "You barstewards", he yelled, pulling at the trigger with the safety catch still on, "You did it on purpose". He was shipped out next day by 3-tonner, securely fastened down.
And the crew went back to work. I've no idea what happened to the Beverley.
The trip was to celebrate the completion of an airstrip lovingly constructed by a small crew from the 5004th Airfield Construction Squadron RAF, at least I think that's what it was called. For about 2 years an elderly Flt Lt had master-ninded the job, which involved hacking out large pieces of rock, crushing them, spreading the material, rolling it, sealing it with tarmac etc.
A Beaver appeared and landed, with all sorts of brass from Aden. Then a Beverley hove majestically into view, circled once and carried out a stately approach and perfect touchdown. As it rolled out, waves developed in a V-pattern in the tarmac along the length of the nice new strip, leaving a pleasing corrugated appearance.
The C-in-C turned to the Flt Lt and remarked that his future for another 2 years was certain. They then climbed back into the Beaver, which departed from a convenient smooth piece of ground.
That evening, the Flt Lt went doo-lally, and threatened us all with a .303 rifle, which was fully loaded, when the generator broke down during a film he liked. "You barstewards", he yelled, pulling at the trigger with the safety catch still on, "You did it on purpose". He was shipped out next day by 3-tonner, securely fastened down.
And the crew went back to work. I've no idea what happened to the Beverley.
Last edited by Capot; 21st Feb 2011 at 16:09.
No, not Beihan but Dhala. I had it in my mind that the Beverley was landing left to right with rather more sand but I may well be wrong.
Talking of Dhala; as you are well aware, Dhala was a one-way strip. The Beverleys had to land towards the mountain and take-off away from it.
We simply could not hack Dhala with an Argosy because of the shortness of the strip, the fact that it was about 3,500 ft amsl and that the temperature was ISA+30. So, we used to supply-drop instead, usually with 1-ton containers.
Those of you in the know will remember that our good friend Gamil Abdul Nasser, who had completely forgiven us for interfering in the Suez campaign, thought that he should move into the Old Yemen and cause us all a great deal of grief.
And so it was that they started to build a concrete blockhouse just over the border north of Dhala. In this blockhouse was mounted a Russian 155 mm howitzer. So, every now and then, they lobbed a shell on to the camp at Dhala and people started to suffer some discomfort and the odd person got killed.
The local Army commander, not unreasonably, asked that the RAF deal with the problem. Well, we had a Labour Government at the time and they were in their tree-hugging mode and were only prepared to allow "minimum force" - whatever that means.
In the initial phase, the Governor authorised the Hunter Squadrons (8 and 43) to attack the blockhouse with rockets. Well, this was about as effective as picking your nose with boxing gloves. Unless you were lucky enough to put a rocket through the letter box in the three foot thick bunker, forget it.
After a few more casualties, No. 37 (Bomber) Squadron were finally invited to sort the problem out with one of their Shackleton MR.2 aircraft loaded with 1,000 lb bombs.
There was a bit of a raffle to determine just who was going to do the business and my "nextdoor neighbour but one" was selected out of a cast of thousands.
Off they went to Dhala loaded with 1,000 lb bombs. I believe they missed with the first two but then consigned the blockhouse and its contents to the land of the 72 virgins.
Feeling quite pleased with themselves, they set off back to Khormaksar at low level. In the Wadi Habilayn, they flew past a bloke on a donkey. Bloke on donkey had a rifle just like everyone else in that part of the world.
Sgt Signaller in the port beam called captain to say that man with donkey had hit the Shackleton with a bullet and that there was an entry and an exit hole in said aeroplane.
My next door neighbour but one (who simply has to remain anonymous) flew a racetrack pattern and dropped a 1,000 ponder on bloke plus donkey!
Had this story escaped into the left wing tree-hugging press, there would have been an international outrage.
Those of us who were on the receiving end of the other side of terrorism, I thought it was wonderful and I envied my man hugely. It reminded me of the famous scene from the "Crocodile Dundee" movie where the mugger with the knife has a go and Crocodile Dundee pulls out this massive machette and says "that's not a knife - this is a knife"!
Talking of Dhala; as you are well aware, Dhala was a one-way strip. The Beverleys had to land towards the mountain and take-off away from it.
We simply could not hack Dhala with an Argosy because of the shortness of the strip, the fact that it was about 3,500 ft amsl and that the temperature was ISA+30. So, we used to supply-drop instead, usually with 1-ton containers.
Those of you in the know will remember that our good friend Gamil Abdul Nasser, who had completely forgiven us for interfering in the Suez campaign, thought that he should move into the Old Yemen and cause us all a great deal of grief.
And so it was that they started to build a concrete blockhouse just over the border north of Dhala. In this blockhouse was mounted a Russian 155 mm howitzer. So, every now and then, they lobbed a shell on to the camp at Dhala and people started to suffer some discomfort and the odd person got killed.
The local Army commander, not unreasonably, asked that the RAF deal with the problem. Well, we had a Labour Government at the time and they were in their tree-hugging mode and were only prepared to allow "minimum force" - whatever that means.
In the initial phase, the Governor authorised the Hunter Squadrons (8 and 43) to attack the blockhouse with rockets. Well, this was about as effective as picking your nose with boxing gloves. Unless you were lucky enough to put a rocket through the letter box in the three foot thick bunker, forget it.
After a few more casualties, No. 37 (Bomber) Squadron were finally invited to sort the problem out with one of their Shackleton MR.2 aircraft loaded with 1,000 lb bombs.
There was a bit of a raffle to determine just who was going to do the business and my "nextdoor neighbour but one" was selected out of a cast of thousands.
Off they went to Dhala loaded with 1,000 lb bombs. I believe they missed with the first two but then consigned the blockhouse and its contents to the land of the 72 virgins.
Feeling quite pleased with themselves, they set off back to Khormaksar at low level. In the Wadi Habilayn, they flew past a bloke on a donkey. Bloke on donkey had a rifle just like everyone else in that part of the world.
Sgt Signaller in the port beam called captain to say that man with donkey had hit the Shackleton with a bullet and that there was an entry and an exit hole in said aeroplane.
My next door neighbour but one (who simply has to remain anonymous) flew a racetrack pattern and dropped a 1,000 ponder on bloke plus donkey!
Had this story escaped into the left wing tree-hugging press, there would have been an international outrage.
Those of us who were on the receiving end of the other side of terrorism, I thought it was wonderful and I envied my man hugely. It reminded me of the famous scene from the "Crocodile Dundee" movie where the mugger with the knife has a go and Crocodile Dundee pulls out this massive machette and says "that's not a knife - this is a knife"!
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a show-the-flag trip from Aden, along the beach, up into the Hadramaut, thence to Ataq, our little convoy was fired on by an angry chap with an ancient piece, partly concealed by a large boulder and halfway up a very steep, very high valley side, somewhere in a wadi in the Eastern Protectorate.
We unhooked a 25pdr, loaded and put a shell just in front of his rock. Firing over open sights at about 600 yards the shell's fuze barely had time to arm.
He leaped out, shouting imprecations at how unsporting this was, and ran up the hill, followed by a series of 25pdr shell bursts behind him, aimed to annoy but not to injure. It would have been very unsporting to actually hurt him, after all.
That same trip gave us the remarkable experience of watching our air support Venoms (or was it Hunters, or both?) flying past us along the beach, no higher than we were. Could they have been from Africa, somewhere?
We unhooked a 25pdr, loaded and put a shell just in front of his rock. Firing over open sights at about 600 yards the shell's fuze barely had time to arm.
He leaped out, shouting imprecations at how unsporting this was, and ran up the hill, followed by a series of 25pdr shell bursts behind him, aimed to annoy but not to injure. It would have been very unsporting to actually hurt him, after all.
That same trip gave us the remarkable experience of watching our air support Venoms (or was it Hunters, or both?) flying past us along the beach, no higher than we were. Could they have been from Africa, somewhere?