C-47 civil conversion
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C-47 civil conversion
Hi there!
I'm looking for some detailed info on the history of the C-47, especially when they were converted to civil use after WW2.
My girlfriend has to write an essay on this but cannot quite find enough sources - and it has to be long.
That's all the specifications on the topic I have as of now, I'll ask further questions later on.
Of course, related links/topics are also welcome.
Thanks in advance!
I'm looking for some detailed info on the history of the C-47, especially when they were converted to civil use after WW2.
My girlfriend has to write an essay on this but cannot quite find enough sources - and it has to be long.
That's all the specifications on the topic I have as of now, I'll ask further questions later on.
Of course, related links/topics are also welcome.
Thanks in advance!
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I don't know how you're doing your search, but there must be ten million words on the Web, at a WAG, about the Douglas DC-3/C-47. It has to be one of the most written-about aircraft in the world, especially this year, its 75th anniversary.
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But were they "converted"?
Was any mod done to a C47 when putting it on a civvy registration, or was the change just a paperwork exercise? I find it hard to imagine that beyond a radio fit anything much was needed.
What were the physical differences between aircraft leaving the factory as a C47 and a DC3? (apart from trim, furnishings etc).
Was any mod done to a C47 when putting it on a civvy registration, or was the change just a paperwork exercise? I find it hard to imagine that beyond a radio fit anything much was needed.
What were the physical differences between aircraft leaving the factory as a C47 and a DC3? (apart from trim, furnishings etc).
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Was any mod done to a C47 when putting it on a civvy registration, or was the change just a paperwork exercise? I find it hard to imagine that beyond a radio fit anything much was needed.
Also many of the C-47s had cabin windows with plugs in the middle of the windows that could be pushed out allowing the crew/passengers, if armed, to fire at enemy fighters if attacked*, these had to be replaced with standard cabin windows.
One of the DC-3s that I flew was actually a C-53, this was a C-47 built to carry paratroopers and one of the differences between the C-47 and the C-53 was that the C-53 carried more fuel than the standard C-47.
* I never heard if a C-47 was ever defended in this manner or not.
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Cargo door, you guys, cargo door. Haven't any of you seen photos of C-47s unloading coal during the Berlin Airlift? The window plugs and seats were inconsequential.
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...
The US coded their Military aircraft with a prefix indicating its role
- of those I can recall include these -
C - Cargo C47
P - Pursuit as in P51 Mustang - ie Fighter in RAF terms
B - Bomber B17 B24 etc
PBY Amphibian or Naval types
X Experimental
...
The US coded their Military aircraft with a prefix indicating its role
- of those I can recall include these -
C - Cargo C47
P - Pursuit as in P51 Mustang - ie Fighter in RAF terms
B - Bomber B17 B24 etc
PBY Amphibian or Naval types
X Experimental
...
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There are surely people on PPRuNe who know much more about this, but off the top of my head, until somewhat after WW2, the Navy had a completely different scheme of numbering aircraft from that used by the Army (Air Corps / Air Force).
Air Corps pursuits / fighters would be in the P-xx series. ie: P-40, P-47, P-47, P-80.
Air Corps bombers were B, as mentioned before.....
Navy fighters would be F[number][letter for manufacturer][number for variant if any]
ie: F4F would be a Grumman fighter, as would a later one, F6F General Motors built F4s during WW2 named the FM-1.
The P-80 became the F-80 after "unification" of the services in the late 1940s.
The PB series were Navy patrol/bombers. PBY would be a patrol bomber built by Consolidated. The PB4Y would be a later model. Examples of Martin patrol planes would be the PBM , etc.
etc etc
Air Corps pursuits / fighters would be in the P-xx series. ie: P-40, P-47, P-47, P-80.
Air Corps bombers were B, as mentioned before.....
Navy fighters would be F[number][letter for manufacturer][number for variant if any]
ie: F4F would be a Grumman fighter, as would a later one, F6F General Motors built F4s during WW2 named the FM-1.
The P-80 became the F-80 after "unification" of the services in the late 1940s.
The PB series were Navy patrol/bombers. PBY would be a patrol bomber built by Consolidated. The PB4Y would be a later model. Examples of Martin patrol planes would be the PBM , etc.
etc etc
I don't have immediate access to my documents but as far as I can remember, B.E.A used several post-war variants of Dakota Mk3 aircraft converted by Airwork and Scottish Aviation. These were called the Pionair or Pionair Leopard, depending on the role.
The Pionair Class was purely for passenger use and the Pionair Leopard Class was able to be converted quickly to either freight of passenger use.
Pionair: 28 or 30 seater, depending on requirements. Two pilots and a steward plus a radio operator when required. Single main entrance door on port side incorporated built-in steps and a freight hold was located a little further back.
Pionair Leopard: Used as either pure freighter or in a 32 seat pax role. Double cargo doors on port side, as per C47.
The Pionair Class was purely for passenger use and the Pionair Leopard Class was able to be converted quickly to either freight of passenger use.
Pionair: 28 or 30 seater, depending on requirements. Two pilots and a steward plus a radio operator when required. Single main entrance door on port side incorporated built-in steps and a freight hold was located a little further back.
Pionair Leopard: Used as either pure freighter or in a 32 seat pax role. Double cargo doors on port side, as per C47.
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Paper Tiger, C-47s were built new with quite large double cargo doors, each of them about five feet wide and seven or eight high, I'm guessing. They had big external hinges about two feet long, two per door. (I'm not sure -all- C-47s were so configured, but certainly most of them were.)
These doors would obviously have to be removed and the big hole made whole, as it were, if a C-47 was to be converted to a passenger-carrying DC-3.
I'm surprised the airplane seems so unfamilar to the English. Don't you remember all those photos of the 82nd and 101st Airborne jumping out of the cargo-door hole over Normandy and Belgium? (The aft door was removed before paratroop flights.)
These doors would obviously have to be removed and the big hole made whole, as it were, if a C-47 was to be converted to a passenger-carrying DC-3.
I'm surprised the airplane seems so unfamilar to the English. Don't you remember all those photos of the 82nd and 101st Airborne jumping out of the cargo-door hole over Normandy and Belgium? (The aft door was removed before paratroop flights.)
The cargo door aperture total size was about 5' 10" x 7'.0" and the normal para exit was via a removable door inside the forward cargo door frame. It was unlocked by two upper handles and lifted upward and inward in a lazy 'S' channel, if I remember correctly. It would be replaced after the jumpers had left.
It might be worth remembering that British forces, as well as American, jumped from these aircraft: the Normandy invasion, Operation Market Garden, the Rhine advance and Burma operations instantly come to mind.
The 'Dak'/C47 is very well-known in the UK to those interested in historic aircraft..
It might be worth remembering that British forces, as well as American, jumped from these aircraft: the Normandy invasion, Operation Market Garden, the Rhine advance and Burma operations instantly come to mind.
The 'Dak'/C47 is very well-known in the UK to those interested in historic aircraft..
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I didn't mean to malign the British by failing to name every unit that jumped from a C-47 during World War II.
My concern about the notoriety of the C-47 is simply prompted by some of the baffling questions (and answers) appearing in this thread, since, as a working aviation historian, I have always come to this forum for authoritative answers and opinions.
Yours, obviously, gets categorized under authoritative, since you obviously know way more than I do about C-47 jump doors. For that, thank you!
My concern about the notoriety of the C-47 is simply prompted by some of the baffling questions (and answers) appearing in this thread, since, as a working aviation historian, I have always come to this forum for authoritative answers and opinions.
Yours, obviously, gets categorized under authoritative, since you obviously know way more than I do about C-47 jump doors. For that, thank you!
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Originally Posted by stepwilk
These doors would obviously have to be removed and the big hole made whole, as it were, if a C-47 was to be converted to a passenger-carrying DC-3.
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Your girlfriend may find some useful info here The DC-3 Hangar on douglasdc3.com DC3 C47 C-47
Quite often those cargo doors on the DC-3 hid a built-in airstair door, located in the front half of the door. This is a pic of a model, but it's how the real aircraft was configured.
