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Concorde's Last Flight (Merged)

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Concorde's Last Flight (Merged)

Old 10th Jul 2010, 22:50
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Concorde's Last Flight (Merged)

Evening all,
Just a heads up to this programme about Concorde.
Channel 4, Monday July 12 at 2100 Hrs.

Regards, CC
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 14:26
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Can't wait for this, some info here:
Concorde's Last Flight - Channel 4
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 19:02
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Will it reveal how a risk-taking Air France crew, operating an inadequately maintained Concorde, ignored Perf A rules and commenced a take-off way over RTOW, attempted to rotate below Vr and whose flight deck disciplines allowed a FE to shut down an engine producing thrust without him having been ordered to do so.....
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 19:02
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concorde crash

Almost a decade after the event ,tonight at 2100hrs C4 is to broadcast a documentary which the producers claim will include startling new evidence on the causes of the crash.
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 19:59
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This, to quote 'Radio Time' reveals startling new evidence about what might have caused the Paris crash' Yeah, right. Agree with Beagle.
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 22:35
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Well having watched it, what a pile of sh1t.

Nothing new, nothing more than a pile of propoganda by self agrondising [email protected] like (run out of fuel) Walpole, (nutter) Lowe and (sentimental) Hutchinson).

No investigational journalism, no taking to task of AF for their lies re the spacer etc.

Pile of doggy-doo imho!
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 22:37
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The programme will need to be updated once the ongoing trial has been completed.

STILL not enough focus upon the Air France mindset which allowed the captain to attempt a take-off outside the limits of aeroplane scheduled performance regulations....

Excellent comments from Brian Walpole, John Hutch, Jock Lowe, Porky Bannister et al....

Sir Terence Conran summed up everyone's thoughts brilliantly.

What a shame that ba rolled over in such a spineless way to the French ultimatum. For all her faults, Maggie Thatcher would never have allowed such a thing to have happened......
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 22:47
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Has this programme been on before on a diffrent channel?
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 23:06
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@ beagle

Indeed, it sent tingles up my spine when Sir Terence Conran was talking about the last flight.

What a brilliant piece of engineering at its best, though likely never to be recreated due to the economics of things! Although one day a millionaire with a passion for her could make her grace the skys once again for airshows ect...
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 23:10
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Has this programme been on before on a diffrent channel?
Nope, this was the first airing
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Old 12th Jul 2010, 23:15
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Will it reveal how a risk-taking Air France crew, operating an inadequately maintained Concorde, ignored Perf A rules and commenced a take-off way over RTOW, attempted to rotate below Vr and whose flight deck disciplines allowed a FE to shut down an engine producing thrust without him having been ordered to do so.....
I think it covered MOST of those bases.. if anything the prog was quite gentle as far as 'Take a Chance' goes. (No mention of the initial runway conditions, oh and the AF guy reckoned that the automatic fuel shut offs could not be over-ridden!!!).
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Old 13th Jul 2010, 00:24
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Although one day a billionaire with a passion for her could make her grace the skys once again for airshows ect...
I've fixed that for you.

Watched the programme which didn't really tell me anything I hadn't already heard about the crash, but still kept me interested nontheless. Loved the old colour footage of the prototypes too.
Just a shame that BA crippled them all once retired. At least one should have been kept as a ground runner imo.
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Old 13th Jul 2010, 07:50
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Good comment BEagle; however, the excess RTOW was actually relatively small and wouldn't (shouldn't) have been a causal factor. Despite the fact that many of the holes in the Swiss Cheese were 'lined-up' for an accident it was (sadly) the F/E who drove the final nail into the coffin. Had he not been 'too eager' to do something the outcome 'might' have been very different i.e. an immediate return to plant it on the runway where all of the airport services would have been on-hand.

TCF
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Old 13th Jul 2010, 08:01
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Just a shame that BA crippled them all once retired
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that the crux of the matter was that Airbus/Aerospatiale pulled the plug on maintenance and spares, no doubt under pressure from AF, and there was therefore no chance for Concorde to maintain her CoA? I note that this was not mentioned on last night's programme, which contained more sentiment than fact.
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Old 13th Jul 2010, 08:39
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TopBunk
nothing more than a pile of propoganda by self agrondising [email protected] like (run out of fuel) Walpole, (nutter) Lowe
Nutter?
Jock Lowe is one of the brightest men I've ever met. Not only academically clever (Ph.D) but, unlike many academically gifted people, also exceptionally shrewd.
He was my first choice as an expert witness in aviation cases when I was a barrister. Over the years, I saw very good barristers try to get the better of him in cross-examination. They all failed - without exception - and several went on to use him as their expert in other cases.

Self-aggrandising?
He isn't, and doesn't need to be. He has nothing to prove.
Chief Pilot Concorde, Chief Pilot BA, Director of Flight Operations BA, Commercial Manager Concorde, the GAPAN Brackley Memorial Trophy for his outstanding contribution to air transport operations, one of only two people ever to be elected Master of the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators and President of the Royal Aeronautical Society, two Honorary Doctorates from different universities for his contribution to aviation to add to the Ph.D. he gained as a student etc etc. Not bad for a "nutter".
He now spends his time playing golf, travelling (usually involving golf) and flying his Chipmunk - and, when he wishes, accepting some of the consultancy/expert witness work offered to him.

Brian Walpole wasn't popular in BA, and his career ended embarrassingly, but without the fantastic work done by Walpole and Lowe who were given the opportunity by Lord King to try to turn the then loss-making Concorde fleet to profit - which they achieved within the deadline set - BA would have had to chop Concorde in the 'streamlining' process before privatisation in 1987.


FL

.

Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 13th Jul 2010 at 08:53.
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Old 13th Jul 2010, 09:24
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Self agrondising twats.?? Oh, really?I got 24 questions right on University Challenge last night, so I must be heading in that direction then!
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Old 13th Jul 2010, 09:44
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i thought it was a good programme.

for the general public there would probably be information in there that they have not seen before, hence the claim. people in aviation will know considerably more than the public, hence there not being much new information.

there did need to be more air france bashing though.

the pilots and engineer interviewed seemed truly gutted about the demise of the aircrafts service.

i have to say i nearly got emotional when terence conran started blubbing

capetonian - this was mentioned near the end, just after the 9/11 bit came the reasons for her being brought out of service 17 months after her return.

also, i got the impression that the extra weight was not noted on the manifest? or have i got that one completely wrong?

a beautiful aircraft, she will be sorely missed.

p.s. it was nice seeing how they got round the JFK noise measuring exercise
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Old 13th Jul 2010, 11:13
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This could be a complete illustration of the rumour mill in full swing, but one of the reasons touted for the imminent closure of the AF exhibition at Filton for 'maintenance' reasons is to allow for a thorough inspection to see if the airframe could fly again for the 2012 opening ceremony.

There's an outcry currently as no one is being told how long the aircraft will be out of display for and its all very secretive but the above is one of the strong rumours doing the rounds and I'm tempted to believe it!

We may see her back in the air again!!

Regards

Concorde14
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Old 13th Jul 2010, 11:14
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Good comment BEagle; however, the excess RTOW was actually relatively small and wouldn't (shouldn't) have been a causal factor.
I query the professionalism of any crew which does not check the effect of the actual wind velocity on the previously calculated RTOW.

Figures I have heard are that the aircraft was around 5 tonnes over RTOW. Any professional airline crew will know that to attempt a take-off with ATOW>RTOW is illegal as it puts the aircraft outside scheduled perfomance regulatory requirements.

The CVR gives the impression that they knew full well that they were overweight, but gave the fact a Gallic shrug and hoped to get away with it....

FL - well put. Jock is indeed a top bloke!
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Old 13th Jul 2010, 12:44
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Concorde's Last Flight

Anyone else watch this on the verge of tears for the whole programme? . I had just come off a night-shift though, & was maybe a bit tired & emotional...
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