Grumman Bearcat inspired by FW-190?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cornwall-on-Hudson, New York
Posts: 875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Reading histories of fighters like the Bf / Me 109 and Spitfire - that was all about the most powerful (& reliable) engines on the smallest airframes."
They all got bigger, and heavier, and more complex, _including_, interestingly, the FW-190. What was intersting about the Bearcat was that it, like, the F-5, was an attempt to go 180 degrees in the other direction.
They all got bigger, and heavier, and more complex, _including_, interestingly, the FW-190. What was intersting about the Bearcat was that it, like, the F-5, was an attempt to go 180 degrees in the other direction.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
......and is a timely reminder that the need to make smaller fighters was not recognised only by Grumman. The Fury began life as the 'Tempest Light Fighter'.
It has been a recurring theme that designers suddenly seem to realise that fighters are getting too big. The F-5 has been mentioned, there was also the Gnat, and most recently the Eurofighter single engine studies borne of Germany's misplaced desire to reduce costs by developing a completely new version of the Typhoon.
Even before the Fury and Bearcat there were attempts to 'simplify and add lightness' in types like the Martin Baker MB2 and Miles M20, but the Bearcat and Fury are undoubtedly the best examples from the pre jet age.
It has been a recurring theme that designers suddenly seem to realise that fighters are getting too big. The F-5 has been mentioned, there was also the Gnat, and most recently the Eurofighter single engine studies borne of Germany's misplaced desire to reduce costs by developing a completely new version of the Typhoon.
Even before the Fury and Bearcat there were attempts to 'simplify and add lightness' in types like the Martin Baker MB2 and Miles M20, but the Bearcat and Fury are undoubtedly the best examples from the pre jet age.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cornwall-on-Hudson, New York
Posts: 875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny, I just got off the phone with Steve Hinton, who of course has flown them all, and he talked of the Fury as in many ways being the polar opposite of the Bearcat. "Nice airplane, but you have to remember it's as big as a bomber." A bit of hyperbole, of course, but he hardly thinks of it as a lightweight.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well it wasn't THAT much smaller than the Tempest in the final execution, but its the thought that counts 
Navalizing it would have piled a few pounds on, it not being initially designed for carriers like the Bearcat was.
I just noticed the Sea Fury in the pic also only has a 4 blade prop, still lovely though, if unauthentic.
Navalizing it would have piled a few pounds on, it not being initially designed for carriers like the Bearcat was.
I just noticed the Sea Fury in the pic also only has a 4 blade prop, still lovely though, if unauthentic.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Graeme, it wasn't that the Fury itself was inspired by th Fw190, only the manner of its Centaurus radial being cowled. I think the best, or perhaps I should say prettiest, version of the Fury was the one with the Napier Sabre in it.
I thought Hawker got the idea of using a comparatively small wing for the fuselage size from the FW190.
The Spitfire IX was a response to the FW190 but was basically a re engined Mk V. From what I read the FW190 was partly inspired by the Bf109 in the sense that it was a deliberate attempt to avoid the bad points. Hence the wide wheeltrack and all round visibility.
The Spitfire IX was a response to the FW190 but was basically a re engined Mk V. From what I read the FW190 was partly inspired by the Bf109 in the sense that it was a deliberate attempt to avoid the bad points. Hence the wide wheeltrack and all round visibility.
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Thailand
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grumman Bearcat inspired by FW-190?
Well, I've had a few hours in the F8, and conclude that the its resemblance to the FW 190 is striking. Whether the 190 had any influence on the F8 may be left to the researchers, I would think. There must have been some real live thoughts buzzing between the German and Grumman engineers-- never mind, both great aircraft. JD Williams, Lcdr USNR
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: 40nm east of BLL
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As not having heard about this before, my initial thoughts is why Grumman would take notice of the German lightweighting when they obviously didn't do it around the primary opponent to the Grummans: The Zero?!
Grummans response to the dominance of the Zero was a bigger engine into a similar airframe wich finally became 55% heavier. Though lightweighting isn't the major quality of the traditional american industry, it seems straightforward to try minimize the weight on the upcoming design after the F6F - Even without the presence of the Butcher Bird.
Just my 0.05$
Grummans response to the dominance of the Zero was a bigger engine into a similar airframe wich finally became 55% heavier. Though lightweighting isn't the major quality of the traditional american industry, it seems straightforward to try minimize the weight on the upcoming design after the F6F - Even without the presence of the Butcher Bird.
Just my 0.05$
Join Date: May 2021
Location: burbank
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 404th's CO Colonel Leo Moon wrote.................... I did get to fly the Bearcat which I believe was more or less a copy of the 190 -although no-one ever admits it..."
Join Date: May 2021
Location: burbank
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wing design about the same, yet not found on any other WW 2 fighter...........................the mainwing spar construction. Unique to the both aircraft...................................................T he main wing spar on the FW-190 extends throughout 3/4's of the entire wing, not just the center section. Bearcat main wingspar runs almost the same length as the Focke Wulfs:
Black Sword, with 3/4 main spar, do you mean spanwise? Did the spar not run from tip to tip? Seems strange to me for an aircraft with such large an engine. The countertorque you need at lower speeds would probably require a full strength wing, with spars running from tip to tip.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Auckland, NZ
Age: 79
Posts: 722
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread started, long ago, with examination of the idea that the F8F was inspired by the FW-190 towards the idea of putting the largest engine in lightest airframe. I just found the following quote from Kurt Tank:
From Wikipedia, but it's sourced. It's also said in that entry that Tank was provoked into using a radial by the example of US Navy aircraft.
All of which suggests that if there was any FW-190 in the F8F, it was definitely a case of what goes around comes around.
The Messerschmitt 109 [[i]sic] and the British Spitfire, the two fastest fighters in the world at the time we began work on the Fw 190, could both be summed up as a very large engine on the front of the smallest possible airframe; in each case armament had been added almost as an afterthought. These designs, both of which admittedly proved successful, could be likened to racehorses: given the right amount of pampering and easy course, they could outrun anything. But the moment the going became tough they were liable to falter ..... This was the background thinking behind the Focke-Wulf 190; it was not to be a racehorse but a Dienstpferd, a cavalry horse.
All of which suggests that if there was any FW-190 in the F8F, it was definitely a case of what goes around comes around.
Black Sword, with 3/4 main spar, do you mean spanwise? Did the spar not run from tip to tip? Seems strange to me for an aircraft with such large an engine. The countertorque you need at lower speeds would probably require a full strength wing, with spars running from tip to tip.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: West Woop Woop
Age: 53
Posts: 56
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts