RAF Manston History of No. 1 AEF (1967 to 1995)
The 5-point harnesses had been introduced by the time of my last Chippy AEF in 1974.
When the Royal Aero Club of WA's VH-RWI crashed in 1997, both occupants were badly injured - they had both "submarined" out from their 4-point harness, exacerbated by them sitting on too soft seat cushions that totally compressed with the high vertical loadings involved (no parachutes obviously).
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Hello Haraka ...
Totally agree old chap ... particularly acute on AEF's with younger/smaller physique Air Cadets.
Interestingly (and quite incorrectly IMHO) the 5th Strap was sometimes called the 'Negative G Strap' by some ... which, as you will know, was a moot point as you weren't supposed to pull -G !
Best ...
Coff.
Totally agree old chap ... particularly acute on AEF's with younger/smaller physique Air Cadets.
Interestingly (and quite incorrectly IMHO) the 5th Strap was sometimes called the 'Negative G Strap' by some ... which, as you will know, was a moot point as you weren't supposed to pull -G !
Best ...
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 23rd Mar 2015 at 19:02.
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Hello Dora-9 ...
Yes ... I can see that without a seat type parachute the problem is equally acute. I'm surprised it's not a mandatory Flight Safety MOD requirement on Civilian Chipmunks. If it were me I'd have the MOD done.
Best ...
Coff.
PS. The original Chipmunk 4 Point Seat Harness ...
Sorry ... but I can't find a pic of the 5 Point Seat Harness at the moment.
Yes ... I can see that without a seat type parachute the problem is equally acute. I'm surprised it's not a mandatory Flight Safety MOD requirement on Civilian Chipmunks. If it were me I'd have the MOD done.
Best ...
Coff.
PS. The original Chipmunk 4 Point Seat Harness ...
Sorry ... but I can't find a pic of the 5 Point Seat Harness at the moment.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 23rd Mar 2015 at 19:12.
Coff:
I believe there's a minimum "compressibility factor" for the seat cushion, in this country at least. The gent who restored my Chipmunk was adamant about getting this right (and quite scathing of the "soft" seat cushions that had been in VH-RWI), so I ended up with quite firm seats. Not that I'm complaining, I believe the RWI front-seater is permanently wheelchair bound now.
D9
I believe there's a minimum "compressibility factor" for the seat cushion, in this country at least. The gent who restored my Chipmunk was adamant about getting this right (and quite scathing of the "soft" seat cushions that had been in VH-RWI), so I ended up with quite firm seats. Not that I'm complaining, I believe the RWI front-seater is permanently wheelchair bound now.
D9
Chipmunk Frames at Manston
Just dropping on to the thread, I used to go to Manston with 358 Squadron from Welling between 1962 and 1963 and have the following aircraft in my 3822;
WK 520 date 27/07/62
WP 970 date 20/08 62
WP 837 date 01/12/63
WP 837 date 06/06/64
Main memories are aeros over Pegwell Bay, how bloody difficult it was to walk out to the aircraft with the chute hanging down behind your backside and being asked if you wanted to go out and do a pass over Radio Caroline out in the Thames Estuary.
The name Ken Fluck rings a bell, a name like that certainly would do especially if it is the guy I remember, as he was a Met policeman and an instructor at our Squadron, he was quite tall, all policemen were in those days and he used to ride one of the police Velocette Noddy bikes. quite a sight complete with pointy helmet as nobody had got to the point where crash helmets were considered a requirement. I left the ATC to join up in Jan 65 and come across Coff a fair bit on the Albert thread in Military forum.
Jumping forward rather in 1987 I was posted to Abingdon after three years on the Tonka toy at Laarbruch on 16 and was pleased to see at least one of the Chipmunks I had flown in at Manston was still trundling round the circuit, unfortunately at this distance in time I can't remember which.
WK 520 date 27/07/62
WP 970 date 20/08 62
WP 837 date 01/12/63
WP 837 date 06/06/64
Main memories are aeros over Pegwell Bay, how bloody difficult it was to walk out to the aircraft with the chute hanging down behind your backside and being asked if you wanted to go out and do a pass over Radio Caroline out in the Thames Estuary.
The name Ken Fluck rings a bell, a name like that certainly would do especially if it is the guy I remember, as he was a Met policeman and an instructor at our Squadron, he was quite tall, all policemen were in those days and he used to ride one of the police Velocette Noddy bikes. quite a sight complete with pointy helmet as nobody had got to the point where crash helmets were considered a requirement. I left the ATC to join up in Jan 65 and come across Coff a fair bit on the Albert thread in Military forum.
Jumping forward rather in 1987 I was posted to Abingdon after three years on the Tonka toy at Laarbruch on 16 and was pleased to see at least one of the Chipmunks I had flown in at Manston was still trundling round the circuit, unfortunately at this distance in time I can't remember which.
Haraka wrote:
During my time as a ULAS student in the early 1970s, solo spinning was in and out of the syllabus with alternate phases of the moon, or so it seemed. But one day I was authorised for the exercise, cranked up and chugged off down the free lane, 'Twyford outbound' to Mapledurham, then into the southerly climb up to whatever height we had to use after I'd passed the A4 west of Reading.
Finally up to altitude, quick HASELLs, then throttle to idle, trim out, wait for the correct IAS, then control column fully back and full left rudder....
As the aircraft departed into the spin, a loud banging and crashing noise came from behind me.... So I promptly recovered and decided that was quite enough spinning for the day! A few aeros, then a PFL before descending, 'Woodley inbound' at the gasometers and back to WW for a circuit or two.
The cause of the noise? The knots in the end of the rear seat straps banging against the rear seat structure. Without the usual levels of vibration, chugging and clattering of the Gyspy Major and with little airflow noise, the racket had been pretty alarming - much to the amusement of my QFI when I told him!
P.S. When flying solo, the four straps tightened up in the rear cockpit showed the potential problem.
Finally up to altitude, quick HASELLs, then throttle to idle, trim out, wait for the correct IAS, then control column fully back and full left rudder....
As the aircraft departed into the spin, a loud banging and crashing noise came from behind me.... So I promptly recovered and decided that was quite enough spinning for the day! A few aeros, then a PFL before descending, 'Woodley inbound' at the gasometers and back to WW for a circuit or two.
The cause of the noise? The knots in the end of the rear seat straps banging against the rear seat structure. Without the usual levels of vibration, chugging and clattering of the Gyspy Major and with little airflow noise, the racket had been pretty alarming - much to the amusement of my QFI when I told him!
Last edited by BEagle; 30th Mar 2015 at 22:05.
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WG430
I stumbled upon this thread...
I currently own WG430. She is currently safe and sound in a hangar at Doylestown Airport in Pennsylvania. I flew her a few times last week. She still has the original markings of No. 1 AEF - the previous owner wanted to maintain authenticity and so do I. In the Spring, I intend to fly her to our home in California. She will then be based at KTRM (Thermal) just outside Palm Springs. I have all of the original logbooks and maintenance records saved in a box in our garage.
I tried to upload a couple of photos from last week, but the upload did not work. Ill try and solve that issue and upload some photos later.
Cheers, Steve Randall
Instagram @redwoodbusdriver
I currently own WG430. She is currently safe and sound in a hangar at Doylestown Airport in Pennsylvania. I flew her a few times last week. She still has the original markings of No. 1 AEF - the previous owner wanted to maintain authenticity and so do I. In the Spring, I intend to fly her to our home in California. She will then be based at KTRM (Thermal) just outside Palm Springs. I have all of the original logbooks and maintenance records saved in a box in our garage.
I tried to upload a couple of photos from last week, but the upload did not work. Ill try and solve that issue and upload some photos later.
Cheers, Steve Randall
Instagram @redwoodbusdriver
Last edited by ferrybloke; 5th Dec 2018 at 16:20. Reason: Add photos
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As promised.. here are some photos of my Chipmunk WG430 last week (1st Dec 2018) in Pennsylvania. It's an ex No.1 AEF Manston aircraft. The previous owners kept it as original as possible and I intend to do the same. She still flies beautifully..
Cheers,
Steve
Cheers,
Steve
Way back in 1964 the Valiant main spars were going haywire. There was little or no flying so 38 Gp's Ansons were made available for the captains to keep their hands in. Chipmunks were provided for the co-pilots.
At first we, at Honington, shared the Marham Chipmunks but then we were the issued with our own. We were allocated WP 830 which was last employed in Cyprus in the reconnaissance role. To this end it was finished in a full green/brown camouflage finish and this was how we flew it. The 90 Sqn pennant was painted on to the fin and when we got tired of non stop aerobatics we went into the Air Experience programe for our groundcrew.
It was a revelation for them. In the Vforce the only groundcrew that could fly were the crew chiefs of a particular aircraft. I, nobody else on the squadron bothered, gave them an opportunity to get airborne.
I was changing over No 1 to N2 with the groundcrew. The coffee was brought to me whilst they changed over the bloke in the back. A check on the inter com and we taxxied out and got airborne.#
I had a box of birds with me! Every thing I did was fantastic! I tutored him on how the controls worked and let him fly it a little bit. Then we came to aerobatics which I knew they all wanted to do. I did the lot: I started with a barrel roll and finished with a stall turn. At the end I Asked him whether He would like to see a spin.
But of course he said so I went into it, about 60 knots then full aft stick and left rudder and in the aircraft went. I held it for about three turns and then thumped on opposite rudder, lined up the control column with the DI and pushed it forward.
Nothing happened.
I held for another three turns and then I started thinking. Inverted spin? I centralised everything and then applied full pro spin elevator and rudder to ensure it was an upright spin. With that I went to normal spin recovery and after another three or four turns in came out.
I levelled at 800ft..
When we taxied in for refuel I sat in the cockpit whilst my airman in the back disembarked. It took two on either side to lift him out and when he got on the wing the was another two to guide him down to the ground. He must have weighed at least 20 stone and we must have been way outside the aft CofG range of the aircraft.
At first we, at Honington, shared the Marham Chipmunks but then we were the issued with our own. We were allocated WP 830 which was last employed in Cyprus in the reconnaissance role. To this end it was finished in a full green/brown camouflage finish and this was how we flew it. The 90 Sqn pennant was painted on to the fin and when we got tired of non stop aerobatics we went into the Air Experience programe for our groundcrew.
It was a revelation for them. In the Vforce the only groundcrew that could fly were the crew chiefs of a particular aircraft. I, nobody else on the squadron bothered, gave them an opportunity to get airborne.
I was changing over No 1 to N2 with the groundcrew. The coffee was brought to me whilst they changed over the bloke in the back. A check on the inter com and we taxxied out and got airborne.#
I had a box of birds with me! Every thing I did was fantastic! I tutored him on how the controls worked and let him fly it a little bit. Then we came to aerobatics which I knew they all wanted to do. I did the lot: I started with a barrel roll and finished with a stall turn. At the end I Asked him whether He would like to see a spin.
But of course he said so I went into it, about 60 knots then full aft stick and left rudder and in the aircraft went. I held it for about three turns and then thumped on opposite rudder, lined up the control column with the DI and pushed it forward.
Nothing happened.
I held for another three turns and then I started thinking. Inverted spin? I centralised everything and then applied full pro spin elevator and rudder to ensure it was an upright spin. With that I went to normal spin recovery and after another three or four turns in came out.
I levelled at 800ft..
When we taxied in for refuel I sat in the cockpit whilst my airman in the back disembarked. It took two on either side to lift him out and when he got on the wing the was another two to guide him down to the ground. He must have weighed at least 20 stone and we must have been way outside the aft CofG range of the aircraft.
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I think I'll leave my 30 something year old 3822 as is thanks Sycamore. I think 199 was still a Cmk1 back then though. They were going through the stretching programme at Marshalls at the time. We got to visit.
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Coffman,
We maintained the university air squadron aircraft at Burnaston Derby.
They would fly the Havards and Chipmunks in during Autumn and took them back after overhaul in the Spring, moving the delivery crews back and forward in Ansons !
The Chipmunks all had the starters with your namesake !! The re-delivery in spring with a dozen Chipunks trying to start after winter storage was like world war three! The cartridges were great for apprentice experiments! We opened them up took out the cordite and fast burners and used them in all kinds of projects.!
We maintained the university air squadron aircraft at Burnaston Derby.
They would fly the Havards and Chipmunks in during Autumn and took them back after overhaul in the Spring, moving the delivery crews back and forward in Ansons !
The Chipmunks all had the starters with your namesake !! The re-delivery in spring with a dozen Chipunks trying to start after winter storage was like world war three! The cartridges were great for apprentice experiments! We opened them up took out the cordite and fast burners and used them in all kinds of projects.!
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GotTheTshirt,
I'm afraid Coffman made his last flight some time ago. His gentle wit is missed on this site but over on the Military aircrew pages the caption comp winner is still awarded the CoffmanStarter memorial trophy.
I'm afraid Coffman made his last flight some time ago. His gentle wit is missed on this site but over on the Military aircrew pages the caption comp winner is still awarded the CoffmanStarter memorial trophy.
Last edited by Tashengurt; 9th Dec 2018 at 18:21.
