Victor Airborne (Merged)
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Hobsons Choice
It is encouraging to see the large number of thoughtful and intelligent posts here, but disquieting to see the larger number of posts that show a complete misunderstanding of the operation of a Victor, and the care that has to be taken when showing such an aircraft off to an enthusiastic, critical and professional audience. A couple of posts from people who should know better are particularly unwelcome. A lot of Red Herrings have been thrown up, but essentially, only 3 people know the sequence of events: pre-day events, pre-flight inspections, K2 technical considerations, met assessments, pre-flight checks, briefings, and the run itself. There are now so many sites discussing this incident, that they are losing the plot. All will be revealed when it is right to do so. There are certainly lessons to be learnt. For those with an investigative mind, look at all the pictures again, the clues are there. Are there any videos to see?
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As an enthusiast who is interested I would like to know what happened and I'm sure those with a professional interest would like to know.
If there isn't a criminal investigation or a regulatory investigation that could be prejudiced, I'm guessing you could spill the beans and stop all the myth and mystery?
If there isn't a criminal investigation or a regulatory investigation that could be prejudiced, I'm guessing you could spill the beans and stop all the myth and mystery?
Last edited by andrewmcharlton; 8th May 2009 at 19:34.
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VictorPilot,
Why all the cloak and dagger stuff? Can't you just knock it on the head and tell everyone what happened? It's obvious as to who you are...
If you can't do that yet, maybe you could put to bed the speculation as to whether or not the CAA are involved in what's going on?
I'm also intrigued by what you mean by this,
The obvious clue is that you're airborne. Joke. I did notice something as you lined up that looked unusual to me but assumed it was a 'Victorism'. Are you suggesting that there was actually a technical issue that contributed to this?
Why all the cloak and dagger stuff? Can't you just knock it on the head and tell everyone what happened? It's obvious as to who you are...
If you can't do that yet, maybe you could put to bed the speculation as to whether or not the CAA are involved in what's going on?
I'm also intrigued by what you mean by this,
For those with an investigative mind, look at all the pictures again, the clues are there.
Last edited by coldplayer; 9th May 2009 at 19:01.
For those with an investigative mind, look at all the pictures again, the clues are there.
By the way, Bob, that was some pretty nifty work recovering from the inadvertent take-off. Well done, on that score at least.....
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Well, considering the amount of smoke coming out of the engines even after the aeroplane was airborne.....
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You don't need an investigative mind to figure out the pictures.
The Victor is going full chaff down the runway (see the exhaust and heat haze), and then takes off. There is nothing at all abnormal here apart from the fact it was unexpected from the viewers perspective and not advisable from an airworthiness point of view.
Whether the pilot fancied re-writing history or there were some other factors at play I guess we'll have to wait and see.
The Victor is going full chaff down the runway (see the exhaust and heat haze), and then takes off. There is nothing at all abnormal here apart from the fact it was unexpected from the viewers perspective and not advisable from an airworthiness point of view.
Whether the pilot fancied re-writing history or there were some other factors at play I guess we'll have to wait and see.
My conjecture being that there was a significant level of thrust being produced by the engines even after the aircraft was airborne.
The smoke seen earlier has no bearing on the issue; all V-bombers smoked like crazy!
The smoke seen earlier has no bearing on the issue; all V-bombers smoked like crazy!
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Sorry BEagle. I din't make my point very clear. I thought the smoke on the ground unusual but put it down to being normal for the Victor. I was, however, suprised that it continued with the aircraft into the air, for just the reason you've noted.
Still, no doubt it has nothing to do with anything!
Still, no doubt it has nothing to do with anything!
Just another number
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A question for ex-Victor pilots
The are many videos on youtube of previous Victor taxi runs. On all of these that I have seen, the ram air inlets on the upper fuselage in front of the fin are extended. However, on the run when the aircraft got airborne the inlets are retracted. Is there any significance in this?
This video shows the ram air inlets;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONj4DPYhkcA&feature=related
Dave
This video shows the ram air inlets;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONj4DPYhkcA&feature=related
Dave
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OK it shouldn't have happened. And I'm very relieved there was no accident.
Having said that, personally I'm delighted it happened!
That a venerable old beast like that with no permit to fly should have hopped into the air accidentally just seems to cock a snook at regulations and authority. It's like it's got a heart that just wanted to prove it could still do it, a caged bird showing there's some spirit left or a desire not to be forgotten in the wake of the Vulcan's return to the skies. Few kids these days have ever heard of a Victor. Although it will never fly again the hop has raised interest and awareness of a great part of British aviation heritage. May the photos of its little escape from the surly bonds of earth continue to appear everywhere and I hope it attracts a few more interested visitors and donations to Bruntingthorpe.
Incidentally does anyone know when it last flew officially?
Ah well, back to my overregulated life on the Boeing. Mustn't forget to wear the tabard for the walkround to keep Health and Safety happy.
Having said that, personally I'm delighted it happened!
That a venerable old beast like that with no permit to fly should have hopped into the air accidentally just seems to cock a snook at regulations and authority. It's like it's got a heart that just wanted to prove it could still do it, a caged bird showing there's some spirit left or a desire not to be forgotten in the wake of the Vulcan's return to the skies. Few kids these days have ever heard of a Victor. Although it will never fly again the hop has raised interest and awareness of a great part of British aviation heritage. May the photos of its little escape from the surly bonds of earth continue to appear everywhere and I hope it attracts a few more interested visitors and donations to Bruntingthorpe.
Incidentally does anyone know when it last flew officially?
Ah well, back to my overregulated life on the Boeing. Mustn't forget to wear the tabard for the walkround to keep Health and Safety happy.
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That a venerable old beast like that with no permit to fly should have hopped into the air accidentally just seems to cock a snook at regulations and authority.
It's like it's got a heart that just wanted to prove it could still do it, a caged bird showing there's some spirit left or a desire not to be forgotten in the wake of the Vulcan's return to the skies.
Few kids these days have ever heard of a Victor. Although it will never fly again the hop has raised interest and awareness of a great part of British aviation heritage.
May the photos of its little escape from the surly bonds of earth continue to appear everywhere and I hope it attracts a few more interested visitors and donations to Bruntingthorpe.
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Just so that you know!
We will always delete any post that contains part or all of a PM sent to that person or vice versa.
It is very rude, and at the very least dis-courteous, to publish PM content.
I have already deleted two posts for that very reason. DON'T do it!
We will always delete any post that contains part or all of a PM sent to that person or vice versa.
It is very rude, and at the very least dis-courteous, to publish PM content.
I have already deleted two posts for that very reason. DON'T do it!
Well, I had a perfectly amiable PM from the chap in question, the content of which will remain confidential.
The full facts WILL be made public; those spotters and MSFS geeks who think they know everything are just plain WRONG!
Be patient - and stop guessing.
And don't bother PM'ing - even if you offered me £1000000, I wouldn't divulge anything I've been told. After all, there is a code.
The full facts WILL be made public; those spotters and MSFS geeks who think they know everything are just plain WRONG!
Be patient - and stop guessing.
And don't bother PM'ing - even if you offered me £1000000, I wouldn't divulge anything I've been told. After all, there is a code.
Well, I had a perfectly amiable PM from the chap in question, the content of which will remain confidential.
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Really you lot, do calm down and stop chucking your dummies at each other! 
Whatever happened (and yes, it wasn't good that it did), the result was no one hurt and little kit damaged.
When the full information becomes available, the small community involved with displaying Victors will learn something and the risk of a second occurrence will reduce considerably.
I take my hats off to those that keep the memory of these elderly aeroplanes alive, I look forward to seeing them whizzing about in the future!
Now, back to following the Henshaw Challenge.....
Whatever happened (and yes, it wasn't good that it did), the result was no one hurt and little kit damaged.
When the full information becomes available, the small community involved with displaying Victors will learn something and the risk of a second occurrence will reduce considerably.
I take my hats off to those that keep the memory of these elderly aeroplanes alive, I look forward to seeing them whizzing about in the future!
Now, back to following the Henshaw Challenge.....
Quote: "The are many videos on youtube of previous Victor taxi runs. On all of these that I have seen, the ram air inlets on the upper fuselage in front of the fin are extended. However, on the run when the aircraft got airborne the inlets are retracted. Is there any significance in this?"
No. The scoops are the Ram Air Turbines feeds which on the Victor purely generate emergency elctrical power. They were normall left out for the takeoff and landing as a belt, braces and piece of string backup in the case of a complete generator failure and being able to bring the AAPP (HP speak for APU) on line.
The Victor was essentially all electric, the hydraullics being powered by electric motors rather than Engine Driven Pumps, and the flying controls were electro-hydraullic units. The Mk1 had an enourmous bank of batteries to cater for the complete electric failure scenario, the Mk2 design used the RATs. Unlikely? Well, the theory was that if you had the nuclear weapon you had just dropped detonate behind you, the shockwave would flame out all four engines. The RATs would allow you to keep flying until you got the engines re-lit, the AAPP only being usable below 25,000'.
No. The scoops are the Ram Air Turbines feeds which on the Victor purely generate emergency elctrical power. They were normall left out for the takeoff and landing as a belt, braces and piece of string backup in the case of a complete generator failure and being able to bring the AAPP (HP speak for APU) on line.
The Victor was essentially all electric, the hydraullics being powered by electric motors rather than Engine Driven Pumps, and the flying controls were electro-hydraullic units. The Mk1 had an enourmous bank of batteries to cater for the complete electric failure scenario, the Mk2 design used the RATs. Unlikely? Well, the theory was that if you had the nuclear weapon you had just dropped detonate behind you, the shockwave would flame out all four engines. The RATs would allow you to keep flying until you got the engines re-lit, the AAPP only being usable below 25,000'.